How was your PA last night?

[Woodinblack]

23 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

@Woodinblack, Are your Evox still under warranty? I have never had any RCF products so do not know how well there are supported in the UK, hopefully better than the orange Italian brand. 

 

No, probably a long way from that. I have two, one is the newer plastic one, one is the original wood one. The plastic one I bought new (B-Stock) not too long ago, which would have been the third edition, but the one that went wrong is the original V1 wooden one, I got that second hand three years ago!

 

[zitherman]

After following this topic and other pa related threads i finally pulled the trigger on a used pair of rcf 710s.Sounded great in my garage studio tonight.First full gig for my duo this friday so we shall see how they compare to the srm 450s we used to use in a previous band .Going to run the double bass through a gk combo with a small amount through the pa.dont know if they will handle the suitcase bassdrum though

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, zitherman said:

After following this topic and other pa related threads i finally pulled the trigger on a used pair of rcf 710s.Sounded great in my garage studio tonight.First full gig for my duo this friday so we shall see how they compare to the srm 450s we used to use in a previous band .Going to run the double bass through a gk combo with a small amount through the pa.dont know if they will handle the suitcase bassdrum though

It'll be good to hear how you get on with them. I've two gigs with my lowly RCF310's this weekend and I know they'll sound good with bass and drums going through them. The 710's should be even better. Good luck with the gig

[zitherman]

Thanks Phil.ill reply after the gig.cheers

[Woodinblack]

On 19/05/2025 at 08:04, Phil Starr said:

 To be fair you've located the problem to the mains input so this time it shouldn't be too tricky or expensive to fix

 

So I tried the speaker at home, couldn't get it to go wrong. I took it apart, and checked the switch and the socket, they were fine, very solid. I disconnected, tested and reconnected the power terminals, and they are also solid, so I put it all back together.

Had a gig on saturday, also open air, but also one we put the whole drum kit through so just in case of issues, I brought my BC speaker and an amp to drive it instead of the bam, in case there is a drop out. And it was rock solid all day, so who knows what that was about, the sound was great.

[Pirellithecat]

Outdoor Gig Saturday. 
  

 

My glacially slow progress to find a bass tone that I'm happy with both on stage and front of house continues ......... 
Spent several hours prior to gig playing bass outside via my PA plus Bass rig, just to get the FOH tone sorted.    Took a fair amount of time!!!  And it didn't rain! 
Took the set up to the Gig, and was happy enough.   Quiet on Stage, Loud enough out front, NO boominess (possibly because it was outside??) . 
Had a few sorties into the audience whilst playing and was surprised!!  
The combined Kick Drum /Bass via the PA was really good .... punchy as I've ever heard it.  And the balance was great!  
We'll see how we get on in a indoor venue next weekend!!!  

The other major difference was that the stage volume was much lower ......... so I'm going to persist with gradually reducing on stage-bass levels and putting it via monitors for the members of the  band who notice and would like more bass. 

Next steps are;
1) Custom-fit IEM's
2) Deploy my new Mixer (CQ 18T) live, so that I have a dedicated monitor mix,
3) Buy a Helix/Zoom B6, and if all works well,
4) Downsize my bass cab (to, in all probability, a LfSys Monaco.)
    
And all this will probably change after next weekend's Gig 🙄

PS  I've followed with interest the debate about having 1 or 2 subs, and was in the 1 Sub supporters club.   However,  The tonal balance, with one sub under one PA top, is noticeably different on the sub side of the stage, from the audience point of view.   MUCH "better", fuller/full spectrum/less bright and just "nicer".  (RCF 932's over a single RCF 705 mk II).  Will try Sub centrally when I get the opportunity .... but the 2 sub solution is tempting ........  

[Al Krow]

51 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

Outdoor Gig Saturday. 
  

 

My glacially slow progress to find a bass tone that I'm happy with both on stage and front of house continues ......... 
Spent several hours prior to gig playing bass outside via my PA plus Bass rig, just to get the FOH tone sorted.    Took a fair amount of time!!!  And it didn't rain! 
Took the set up to the Gig, and was happy enough.   Quiet on Stage, Loud enough out front, NO boominess (possibly because it was outside??) . 
Had a few sorties into the audience whilst playing and was surprised!!  
The combined Kick Drum /Bass via the PA was really good .... punchy as I've ever heard it.  And the balance was great!  
We'll see how we get on in a indoor venue next weekend!!!  

The other major difference was that the stage volume was much lower ......... so I'm going to persist with gradually reducing on stage-bass levels and putting it via monitors for the members of the  band who notice and would like more bass. 

Next steps are;
1) Custom-fit IEM's
2) Deploy my new Mixer (CQ 18T) live, so that I have a dedicated monitor mix,
3) Buy a Helix/Zoom B6, and if all works well,
4) Downsize my bass cab (to, in all probability, a LfSys Monaco.)
    
And all this will probably change after next weekend's Gig 🙄

PS  I've followed with interest the debate about having 1 or 2 subs, and was in the 1 Sub supporters club.   However,  The tonal balance, with one sub under one PA top, is noticeably different on the sub side of the stage, from the audience point of view.   MUCH "better", fuller/full spectrum/less bright and just "nicer".  (RCF 932's over a single RCF 705 mk II).  Will try Sub centrally when I get the opportunity .... but the 2 sub solution is tempting ........  

 

Impressive set up!

 

Welcome to the A&H CQ18T club!

 

I'll be hoping to join you in the RCF 932A club at some point soon - I think our singers deserve better than the more budget 912As we currently have, to bring out their vocals. 

 

But as for RCF 705 subs and custom IEMs...you've left us for dust!

[JPJ]

1 hour ago, Pirellithecat said:

PS  I've followed with interest the debate about having 1 or 2 subs, and was in the 1 Sub supporters club.   However,  The tonal balance, with one sub under one PA top, is noticeably different on the sub side of the stage, from the audience point of view.   MUCH "better", fuller/full spectrum/less bright and just "nicer".  (RCF 932's over a single RCF 705 mk II).  Will try Sub centrally when I get the opportunity .... but the 2 sub solution is tempting ........  

Wait until you try two (or more) subs centrally, you’ll be a convert for life 😂

[Pirellithecat]

At the risk of "stuck-record-ness"  The sub makes so much difference to the sound - much greater than upgrading from RCF 710's to 932's!   
A personal hearing "thing" probably, but I find the tops excellent, in comparison to eg Mackie 450's ......... so much clearer ...... BUT, with a very strong female vocalist (and a dreadful sound guy -me).  I find that the RCF upper mid/treble is a tad "shrill" - which is why I upgraded in the first place.   Hopefully I can get this sorted with the CQ18T ........... 

[Pirellithecat]

1 minute ago, JPJ said:

Wait until you try two (or more) subs centrally, you’ll be a convert for life 😂

I'd love to try this, but the venues we play have so little space usually there isn't any "centre"! to spare!! 🙄🤣

[Al Krow]

24 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

At the risk of "stuck-record-ness"  The sub makes so much difference to the sound - much greater than upgrading from RCF 710's to 932's!   
A personal hearing "thing" probably, but I find the tops excellent, in comparison to eg Mackie 450's ......... so much clearer ...... BUT, with a very strong female vocalist (and a dreadful sound guy -me).  I find that the RCF upper mid/treble is a tad "shrill" - which is why I upgraded in the first place.   Hopefully I can get this sorted with the CQ18T ........... 

 

22 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

I'd love to try this, but the venues we play have so little space usually there isn't any "centre"! to spare!! 🙄🤣

 

I can appreciate that the subs will make a big difference, particularly at outdoor gigs which is where we notice the lack, but we do precious few of those. But, as you say, space can be limited at a lot of indoor, certainly pub, gigs and we do seem to manage to get a pretty decent low-end with our more humble 912As.

[Al Krow]

@Pirellithecat - question for: do you think not finding a bass tone that you are happy with could potentially be down to too much low end in some of the more cramped venues you're playing in?

[Owen]

MODS! BAN THIS SICK FILTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pirellithecat]

Absolutely!
I recently rebuilt/modded an old Fender Power Jazz Bass Special,  and it's fantastic......... but really full in the lower bass and harmonics.  
So I turned the bass EQ down a tad ....... not sufficient ....... Checked the spec on the Ashdown ABM 600, and the Bass Control centres at 45 Hz!!!!!   So now it's basically "off"! 
And that's better except when the stage volume gets too loud ..... (107dB!) and then everything goes to mush! Too much bass boom and clangy upper mids .... ! 
Made worse by having to use ear defenders, ...... 
So, time to affect the things I can and not worry about the things I can't .... hence IEMs/Bass through FOH, = reduced volume on stage = hopefully less stage volume = better mix! 
Ever the optimist 🤣

[Pirellithecat]

Expect realism to rear its ugly head after next weekend's gig!!!  
I'll let the post know ..... hopefully pics and smugness ....🤞🤞🤞🤞

Edited Tuesday at 14:04 by Pirellithecat

[Phil Starr]

5 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

Outdoor Gig Saturday. 
  

 

My glacially slow progress to find a bass tone that I'm happy with both on stage and front of house continues ......... 
Spent several hours prior to gig playing bass outside via my PA plus Bass rig, just to get the FOH tone sorted.    Took a fair amount of time!!!  And it didn't rain! 
Took the set up to the Gig, and was happy enough.   Quiet on Stage, Loud enough out front, NO boominess (possibly because it was outside??) . 
Had a few sorties into the audience whilst playing and was surprised!!  
The combined Kick Drum /Bass via the PA was really good .... punchy as I've ever heard it.  And the balance was great!  
We'll see how we get on in a indoor venue next weekend!!!  

The other major difference was that the stage volume was much lower ......... so I'm going to persist with gradually reducing on stage-bass levels and putting it via monitors for the members of the  band who notice and would like more bass. 

Next steps are;
1) Custom-fit IEM's
2) Deploy my new Mixer (CQ 18T) live, so that I have a dedicated monitor mix,
3) Buy a Helix/Zoom B6, and if all works well,
4) Downsize my bass cab (to, in all probability, a LfSys Monaco.)
    
And all this will probably change after next weekend's Gig 🙄

PS  I've followed with interest the debate about having 1 or 2 subs, and was in the 1 Sub supporters club.   However,  The tonal balance, with one sub under one PA top, is noticeably different on the sub side of the stage, from the audience point of view.   MUCH "better", fuller/full spectrum/less bright and just "nicer".  (RCF 932's over a single RCF 705 mk II).  Will try Sub centrally when I get the opportunity .... but the 2 sub solution is tempting ........  

Great that it all went well, I love doing sound at open air gigs. with no reflective surfaces and multiple sound pathways you really get to hear just how good your sound can be. and that bass sound your audience is hearing shows you just how good bass through PA can be. The onstage sound is lower usually for two reasons you are usually further from the PA speakers and often have a lot more space and are further from all the speakers. Often the bass frequencies indoors dominate the sound. If the PA is loud enough to reach the audience in the back rows then because it's omnidirectional it is going to be too loud on stage and the PA speakers are only going to be a couple of metres away at best.

 

Tops on a pair of subs is usually OK indoors as the multiple reflections usually fill the power alleys. Subs together would usually mean in front of the singer so not really an option anyway.  You also get power alleys outdoors if you use tops with no subs and it is usually really obvious as we've found multiple times using my RCF745's with no subs. If you have two speakers and the same level of bass you get exactly the same power alleys.

[Phil Starr]

6 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

So I tried the speaker at home, couldn't get it to go wrong. I took it apart, and checked the switch and the socket, they were fine, very solid. I disconnected, tested and reconnected the power terminals, and they are also solid, so I put it all back together.

Had a gig on saturday, also open air, but also one we put the whole drum kit through so just in case of issues, I brought my BC speaker and an amp to drive it instead of the bam, in case there is a drop out. And it was rock solid all day, so who knows what that was about, the sound was great.

 

Let's hope that's the end of the problem.

[jezzaboy]

Well after posting about changing my pa set up, here is where I`m at. I own a set of Yam DBR 12`s which I think we have used twice. I recently bought a set of DBR 10`s and a s/hand EV ELX 200 12" sub. I have only used this set up in the flat at low volume but on Saturday we are playing in MacSorley`s in Glasgow centre a pub well know for bands so I will see what happens.

 

The DBR has a 100 HZ and a 120 HZ setting on the back, what would be the best setting? The good thing about the sub is it has an app to adjust, saves me bending down too far! 

[Phil Starr]

On 03/06/2025 at 20:44, jezzaboy said:

The DBR has a 100 HZ and a 120 HZ setting on the back, what would be the best setting? The good thing about the sub is it has an app to adjust, saves me bending down too far! 

I''m assuming you can set the sub's crossover point. if not you should use whatever fixed point that has and match it as nearly as possible with the tops. if it is completely variable I'd use 120Hz. My resoning would say take as much bass out of the tops as you can. In practice I doubt it matters or that you would notice as that's only 3 semitones difference

[jezzaboy]

Thanks Phil. Yes I can set the subs crossover to match the DBRs. I will set them to 120. 

[nilebodgers]

3 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

I''m assuming you can set the sub's crossover point. if not you should use whatever fixed point that has and match it as nearly as possible with the tops. if it is completely variable I'd use 120Hz. My resoning would say take as much bass out of the tops as you can. In practice I doubt it matters or that you would notice as that's only 3 semitones difference

it needs a bit of care, 120Hz should be fine, but if you go higher and start to get low male vocal in the subs things can start to sound a bit strange.

[Al Krow]

10 hours ago, nilebodgers said:

it needs a bit of care, 120Hz should be fine, but if you go higher and start to get low male vocal in the subs things can start to sound a bit strange.

 

Interesting point which I'd not really given any thought to: a low male can often get comfortably down to a b1 = 61 Hz.

 

My ignorance, but why would it matter if that was being handled by the sub(s) rather than the tops?

Edited 7 hours ago by Al Krow