Foldback, Monitoring Questions

[stewblack]

I play a regular gig where the sound engineer changes and sometimes we get one less capable than the others.

In order to make sure I can actually hear what I play I experimented last night with using a bass combo titled back in front of me, like a monitor. I figured I could increase my volume without affecting the front of house too much.

It was fine. Mostly. The only issue was if I bent forward it howled. 

Now here's my question. Would a 'proper' monitor work better? 

 

[Chienmortbb]

Are you feeding it a mix from the mixer or going direct to the combo?

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

Are you feeding it a mix from the mixer or going direct to the combo?

Sorry I wasn't clear - it's my usual amp I go straight into it and take a line out to the desk. I just wondered if monitors are sprinkled with a different kind of sauce to make them more suitable 

[Man.about.Tyne]

Put it to the side of you so that it’s not playing directly back at your soundboard. I’m assuming you’re using your double bass and this is just feedback.

[stewblack]

14 hours ago, Man.about.Tyne said:

Put it to the side of you so that it’s not playing directly back at your soundboard. I’m assuming you’re using your double bass and this is just feedback.

Yes it's just feedback, but no I'm using an ordinary electric bass.

[police squad]

5 hours ago, stewblack said:

Yes it's just feedback, but no I'm using an ordinary electric bass.

how can it feedback, have you lots of overdrive on it?

[gjones]

I assume there are no monitors onstage, or if there are other band members have nabbed them? 

 

I usually don't go through a PA without some form of onstage amp, as my experience of onstage monitors is that they're either to loud or too quiet.

 

I rarely have an issue with feedback though as, although the amp is pointing directly at me, it's usually pretty quiet onstage and I don't use a lot of high end in my sound.

 

If your amp is feeding back try turning the high end down until it stops, you only need it for monitoring and turning the high end down on your amp won't affect your front of house sound.

 

Alternatively, just don't bend over your amp

 

[PaulWarning]

different solution to the same problem, I had trouble hearing myself sometimes now I put my amp/speakers on a table or chair to get them at ear level, it's solved the problem for me

[Phil Starr]

On 03/05/2024 at 12:57, stewblack said:

I play a regular gig where the sound engineer changes and sometimes we get one less capable than the others.

In order to make sure I can actually hear what I play I experimented last night with using a bass combo titled back in front of me, like a monitor. I figured I could increase my volume without affecting the front of house too much.

It was fine. Mostly. The only issue was if I bent forward it howled. 

Now here's my question. Would a 'proper' monitor work better? 

 

I'm really surprised at this. Feedback needs the signal fed back and amplified and the idea that acoustic feedback through the strings was louder than when you picked them is really unusual. It's emphasised by any resonances however so maybe your change of position created a new resonance and you won't get that on other stages in other venues. Odd, but it probably won't happen again.

 

The only other thing that I can think of is that use of high levels of compression can cause feedback. Guitarists use it for sustain which is just a kind of controlled feedback.

 

To answer your question a 'proper' monitor will usually have a flatter, smoother response with fewer peaks in response which will increase the chance of setting off resonance. Of course if you re-eq it to make it sound like your bass amp you will be restoring that response so that it is no longer flat. The best monitors also filter out extreme bass and treble to avoid feedback at frequencies that aren't needed for monitoring. Modern DSP PA speakers often have a 'monitor' setting to do just this.

 

Let us know if it happens again at other venues.

[stewblack]

Just now, Phil Starr said:

I'm really surprised at this. Feedback needs the signal fed back and amplified and the idea that acoustic feedback through the strings was louder than when you picked them is really unusual. It's emphasised by any resonances however so maybe your change of position created a new resonance and you won't get that on other stages in other venues. Odd, but it probably won't happen again.

 

The only other thing that I can think of is that use of high levels of compression can cause feedback. Guitarists use it for sustain which is just a kind of controlled feedback.

 

To answer your question a 'proper' monitor will usually have a flatter, smoother response with fewer peaks in response which will increase the chance of setting off resonance. Of course if you re-eq it to make it sound like your bass amp you will be restoring that response so that it is no longer flat. The best monitors also filter out extreme bass and treble to avoid feedback at frequencies that aren't needed for monitoring. Modern DSP PA speakers often have a 'monitor' setting to do just this.

 

Let us know if it happens again at other venues.

Thanks Phil. I'll try it again next week 

[Owen]

Pickups need potting? Dipping in wax to stop the coils getting jiggy with themselves and squealing. 

[stewblack]

29 minutes ago, Owen said:

Pickups need potting? Dipping in wax to stop the coils getting jiggy with themselves and squealing. 

Thank you. I'll try with some other basses

[Owen]

It is certainly an issue with some pickups when faced with lots of gain. 

[pete.young]

On 03/05/2024 at 15:07, stewblack said:

Sorry I wasn't clear - it's my usual amp I go straight into it and take a line out to the desk. I just wondered if monitors are sprinkled with a different kind of sauce to make them more suitable 

I've done this with my TecAmp Puma combo for years and never had any issues with feedback.