The problem of Subs in Pubs.

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

Exactly 364 days after purchase. Built in obsolescence is really evolving.

How old actually is the sub? If it is really just less than a year old you will still have rights.

 

It's frustrating in so many areas now. Modern consumer electronics is actually so much more reliable than the gear of my childhood and cheaper too but largely unrepairable. All the electronics on a single board with surface mount components means practical component level repairs are somewhere between difficult to impossible. Assembly in the far east means circuit diagrams and component availablity is almost non existent. If your amp is class D and has a switch mode supply I'd suspect the power supply. That probably means sourcing a whole new amp but you might be lucky.

[uk_lefty]

The drummer bought it brand new 364 days before it failed at Saturday's gig. He is trying to see if it's under any kind of warranty. I also want to take my little SWR amp for a bit of TLC to the amp repair man locally so can easily pass him the sub too at the same time for a diagnosis if it's not under warranty.

[pete.young]

5 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

The drummer bought it brand new 364 days before it failed at Saturday's gig. He is trying to see if it's under any kind of warranty. I also want to take my little SWR amp for a bit of TLC to the amp repair man locally so can easily pass him the sub too at the same time for a diagnosis if it's not under warranty.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, in England and Wales you have 6 years from the date of purchase to seek a remedy from the retailer, for goods which have failed within a reasonable lifespan for the product. This is independent of any manufacturers warranty. After 6 months you have to demonstrate that the equipment has failed prematurely.

[Phil Starr]

5 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

The drummer bought it brand new 364 days before it failed at Saturday's gig. He is trying to see if it's under any kind of warranty. I also want to take my little SWR amp for a bit of TLC to the amp repair man locally so can easily pass him the sub too at the same time for a diagnosis if it's not under warranty.

Well said @pete.young

 

This might be useful, it was my starting point in getting money back on a faulty car https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product-aTTEK2g0YuEy

 

Which also offer online and telephone advice from their solicitors at a reasonable price if you need it. Contact your retailer and keep track of correspondance (emails are helpful here) usual tactic is delay in the hope you give up (though you may be lucky) so keep plugging away regularly and if answers are slow you can give them time limits by which they have to respond. Taking them to the claims court isn't expensive (there are set fees) and most businesses find it cheaper to settle than to go to court.

 

Out of curiosity who was the retailer and what make is the sub?

[Downunderwonder]

A working band has "consumer" rights? Not likely.

 

If a store buys a TV to use to play video and it dies prematurely that's tough luck.

[Chienmortbb]

That 6 year rule is a hangover from EU membership. Probably some of the “ Red Tape” that we “need” to get rid of.

[tauzero]

14 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

A working band has "consumer" rights? Not likely.

 

If a store buys a TV to use to play video and it dies prematurely that's tough luck.

 

If an individual buys it, then they're a consumer, unless it's the individual's main business. So any weekend warrior band member can buy a piece of equipment (as themselves) and they're then a consumer.

 

The Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 gives a business rights concerning quality, refunds, etc.

Edited April 30 by tauzero

[Muzz]

I've gigged extensively in pubs, some smaller clubs and all sorts of wedding/function venues with two RCF 12 tops and a single 12 sub, and it was never, ever short of volume - and that's with triggered drums and no backline (guitar/vocal, bass, drums trio doing all sorts of music). If you need to go much louder than that in the sort of places above then the people at the front are being deafened...  We've even used a pair of Bose S1s with the RCF 12 sub, and that was fine for smaller places.

 

Newer band is a four-piece, no backline, miked kit, and through two RCF 15 tops it can go stupidly, pointlessly loud for pubs. I use inears, which are a blessing because it's so loud.

 

All the bigger gigs I've played have had backline and/or appropriate sized PA for the venue.

 

I can't recall a gig in the last 15 years when I either thought or have been told by a punter that any band I was in wasn't loud enough. Too loud, yes, not loud enough, no. Only ever played with a single 12 sub, now and then.

Edited April 30 by Muzz

[Phil Starr]

Yeah my 15" RCF's are also stupidly loud if we need them to be. Just a bit over the top really in most of our venues.

 

I'm a bit concenrned about some of the advice on sub placement though. Firstly you ideally want all your drivers time aligned especially around the crossover points so putting subs just anywhere can be less than optimal unlessyou can adjust delay to re-align the speakers. That's more in the realms of installed systems or professional sound engineers than pub bands though

 

I'm also concerned about wall reinforcement. Even on the floor you are getting a 6db uplift in bass and my subs are easily matching the tops and having to be trimmed back unless I'm outdoors. this is obviously dependant upon which subs you use and what tops you are matching with them so knowing your own system and matching it to circumstances at the venue seems better than adopting a blanket solution for every venue. Using walls and corners to lift the bass if you don't have enough is worth knowing about but I don't think anyone is doing it at every venue.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

On the 6dB lift from being on the floor speaker response is a half-space result. If the baffle is less than a wavelength in dimension, which below 100Hz is a minimum of 3.4 metres, the speaker must be on the floor for half-space loading. Where wall and corner loading are concerned the additional sensitivity gained means you can use less power and/or a smaller sub for the same result, but of far more significance doing so eliminates the potential for boundary reflection cancellations as much as 24dB deep where the sub is a quarter wavelength from said boundaries. 

[Owen]

On 28/04/2024 at 14:39, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

 Having subs next to a wall gets you 6dB of additional sensitivity, putting them in a corner an extra 12dB. In most cases you’ll have best results aiming the subs towards the wall or corner from about 30cm away from the boundary.

When I FINALLY get around to sorting out my church PA, our 4 1x10" subs are going to be stacked in the corner facing the wall like naughty children. Thanks Bill.

[Owen]

On 28/04/2024 at 19:07, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

the bass sounds like a bass and not a 30 ton dump truck dropping a load.

I am conflicted here. Having both options available would be lovely

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Depending on the size of the room putting them in more than one corner, even in four corners, may give the best result. The only way to be sure is via trial and error, though software like REW (roomeqwizard) makes it much easier.