QUEST for a budget 5 string unlined fretless

[carlsim]

Hi all...

 

My quest seems to be a fruitless one... I have been looking for an unlined 5 string fretless bass for some time now - not something I would gig a lot so I had a budget of around £300 in my head. What can i get for that?

Bu**er all basically! So... what are my options?

For a true unlined board, buy a cheaper fretted bass and swap the fingerboard. Or, buy a fretted bass, buy some veneer which is the same wood rather than contrasting and glue in and finish. Then, possibly add a stain with oil to finish for a bit more uniformity.

so... 2 options.

1 - swap the fingerboard for an ebony board.

2 - defret and fill with matching veneer and stain a bit darker to look like ebony (it is a rosewood board).

 

Option 1 raises many questions.

1 - can I achieve a good finish? I am pretty confident and meticulous when it comes to woodworking although sometimes my patience runs out. Main concerns are getting a flush finish around the edges when the ebony would meet the maple of the neck. Plus, also there is the issue of the radius on the board. Flat is an option (thank you to @Andyjr1515 for talking me through a few options...) or possibly a very subtle 15/17 degree radius which shouldn't be too much hassle (would need to get radius blocks as needed). I do have most of the tools to do the job and I don't mind buying tools needed... who doesn't like a nice new tool here and there!

Do I have the time to do this? Could be moving house soon to a renovation property and that is going to give me plenty to do!

 

Option 2 is obviously an easier option and something I have done before. However, I haven't tried to hide the lines before by using a matching veneer.

The question is can I make it look like an unlined board? Anyone tried this route before? Feel free to post pics...

 

So my question to you BCers is - option 1 or 2?

Anyone with personal experience of either method? Time frames? Links to build threads? Pictures of finished projects?

 

I have picked up a trans red Overwater aspiration 5 string fretted bass recently which is going to the project bass. It doesn't have dot markers on the fingerboard so if a go the defret route, I only have to worry about filling the fret lines and changing dot markers on the side.

 

Any comments would be most welcome - am I putting myself in a world of hurt here trying to change a fingerboard? I'm no luthier by any means, never built an instrument but after my recent success in re-finishing my Xotic bass (feel free to view the build thread), confidence in projects like this is high! @Andyjr1515 was very encouraging on the fingerboard swap idea...

 

I will post some pics of the bass when I can.

 

Carl.

Edited May 2, 2023 by carlsim

[BreadBin]

Just buy a Harley Benton Progressive 5 fretless. Plenty left in the budget for tweaking.

[BassBus]

8 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

Just buy a Harley Benton Progressive 5 fretless. Plenty left in the budget for tweaking.

This.

 

I bought one of these to try little projects on. They are actaully very, very good for the money. Lovely neck and no lines. 

[carlsim]

50 minutes ago, BreadBin said:

Just buy a Harley Benton Progressive 5 fretless. Plenty left in the budget for tweaking.

Yeah I did look at those, but already have the overwater aspiration not doing very much… plus I like something to tinker with!

 

I was hoping to see what other people had done in these situation and whether any amateur ‘luthiers’ had attempted a fingerboard swap…

[lidl e]

People seem to be having some level of success with custom aliexpress builds.

 

You can read a lot about them on the other site.

Edited May 2, 2023 by lidl e

[Ralf1e]

There is a Bryce 5 string fretless on Gumtree for £99. I believe in Hertfordshire. It has been on there for some while but was recently relisted so maybe it might help you out while you look for your hearts desire. Some people love them.

I inquired on here recently as to what it was so somewhere on here is maybe some photos of it.

[Ralf1e]

Found on Gumtree.

Anyone know the maker or anything about this. Quality, build etc

Is it woth a punt or firewood?

Please view this ad:

B/ bass guitar ,
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/b-bass-guitar/1454299922

Price: £ 99

Download the application from the Google Play Store.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gumtree.android

[Andyjr1515]

18 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

Found on Gumtree.

Anyone know the maker or anything about this. Quality, build etc

Is it woth a punt or firewood?

Please view this ad:

B/ bass guitar ,
https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/b-bass-guitar/1454299922

Price: £ 99

Download the application from the Google Play Store.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gumtree.android

Hmmm- that looks worth a peep at @carlsim

 

You could still add a decent tinker challenge by getting the neck to fit on your Overwater...

[carlsim]

I’m bought some rosewood veneer off eBay which arrived today so I’m going to pull a couple of frets out and test how the veneer matches to the existing rosewood.

I will give the neck a bit of wire wool first and see how the match looks… 

possibly add an ebony stain - looks like this could be the best option…

if I only pull a few frets out, I can still use the existing ones to get some heat in there if I decide to do a fretboard swap…

to be honest, I bought the overwater for this purpose so would rather not try and butcher two things together.

the key thing is, can I disguise a defret so it looks like an unlined board??

[SpondonBassed]

28 minutes ago, carlsim said:

the key thing is, can I disguise a defret so it looks like an unlined board??

 

You may be lucky and get a good match with your veneer but I'm betting that even if others can't see the lines, you won't be able to unsee them.  There will be a difference in the direction of the wood grain for starters.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Edited May 3, 2023 by SpondonBassed

[Ralf1e]

1 minute ago, SpondonBassed said:

 

You may be lucky and get a good match with your veneer but I'm betting that even if others can't see the lines, you won't be able to unsee them.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I honestly believe you will always see the difference in the grain which will be across the neck instead of down it.

Only other way I can think of is to powder timber the same  matched colour and make a glue or resin mix up of it.

[carlsim]

I think I agree with the above 2 comments… 

I pulled out 3 frets today and cut some of the veneer to be glued in tomorrow. The veneer is a good match, but I think you are both right, the lines will be visible to some degree.

 

I am going to try it anyway, possibly with an additional ebony stain to get some uniformity of colour which will hopefully hide them a bit more. Once a do a bit of grain filling with some tru oil, I am hoping it will look more or less unlined! 
if not, off it will come!

I will update in the next few days…

[carlsim]

So the veneer is going in nicely… luckily it’s a snug fit in the slot so titebond and veneer should minimise visibility…

I am quite hopeful that the lines will be minimal, will update once I have cut and sanded these 4.

I will, no doubt, lose patience and do the rest! I know what I’m like…

[carlsim]

I'm also now thinking... would feint / just about visible lines be a bad thing?? Especially with my intonation!

 

Maybe an unlined upgrade can be a bit further down the line...

 

Will report back when it is cut down and sanded...

[Hellzero]

There's a third option, which is removing the frets, sanding the whole fingerboard flat to the depth of the slots, then gluing an upper 3 to 5 mm (depending on the depth of the slots) thick ebony fingerboard radiused to your "needs" and moving the side dots to the correct position.

 

It's fast and easy.

[carlsim]

21 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

There's a third option, which is removing the frets, sanding the whole fingerboard flat to the depth of the slots, then gluing an upper 3 to 5 mm (depending on the depth of the slots) thick ebony fingerboard radiused to your "needs" and moving the side dots to the correct position.

 

It's fast and easy.

I hadn’t thought of that to be honest… something I am going to consider.

I have done a small test area and lines are definitely showing, albeit not dramatically… hmmm…

[TheGreek]

I think I could live with that.

[carlsim]

28 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

I think I could live with that.

I think I'm going to as well! 🙂

[Andyjr1515]

5 hours ago, TheGreek said:

I think I could live with that.

Me too.

Any finish (even lemon oil) will further darken the lines too 

 

[carlsim]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Me too.

Any finish (even lemon oil) will further darken the lines too 

 

I think I’m going that route… I’m hoping that possibly a darker stain might create a bit more uniformity.

 

@Andyjr1515 I know you used ink as a stain for wood before - is that correct?

would that work? I’m hoping to create a black ebony look - can you recommend a stain??

 

also… I saw people use CA glue as a grain fill but I think I will use tru oil again… just to grain fill and add some protection.

@Andyjr1515 is this a good idea for a rosewood board??

[ezbass]

19 minutes ago, carlsim said:

I’m hoping that possibly a darker stain might create a bit more uniformity.

I was thinking this, certainly can’t hurt.

[Hellzero]

Try ammonia first, it has the faculty to darken wood, but make light passes as it can really darken a lot.

[Waddo Soqable]

Black spirit based leather dye I've used on wood before with success. 

[Andyjr1515]

51 minutes ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Black spirit based leather dye I've used on wood before with success. 

This ^  Fiebings Leather Dye.  Very black.  Wear rubber gloves...

[Andyjr1515]

3 hours ago, carlsim said:

I think I’m going that route… I’m hoping that possibly a darker stain might create a bit more uniformity.

 

@Andyjr1515 I know you used ink as a stain for wood before - is that correct?

would that work? I’m hoping to create a black ebony look - can you recommend a stain??

 

also… I saw people use CA glue as a grain fill but I think I will use tru oil again… just to grain fill and add some protection.

@Andyjr1515 is this a good idea for a rosewood board??

Be a bit careful.  Stains work best when they soak into the wood and so you don't really want to use anything that will stop that happening.  I would be inclined to sand it smooth, stain it and then just do a wipe coat of tru oil to keep the moisture out.