allighatt0r Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Did the rolling stones have some sort of aversion to using a tuner? I'm trying to learn a couple of songs while playing along to them (namely [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuTiTfbfy7Q"]sympathy for the devil[/url] and [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAqtsNWkpUk"]jumping jack flash[/url]) and the recordings are completely out of tune. (somewhere between standard and half a step down tuning) What is going on? Was this the cool thing to do back in them days?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddys nose Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I've just learnt Jumping Jack Flash and the hardest thing was finding the key I wonder if they speeded the tape up to get it to sound more tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Yeah they used to do that... If the final thing sounded too slow they speeded the whole thing up. No Autotune or s/w that kept the pitch then .. Just retune your bass to the record... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbwaddy Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 another one could be that they did what van halen used to do eddie took his guitar out and every instument was tuned to what ever it was tuned to. i thought i was doing something wrong when i tried learning stones and vh stuff years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 (edited) Keith richards uses loads of different tunings sometimes he plays without an E string. Edited April 29, 2009 by YouMa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 No electronic tuners back then either so if there's no piano present they could easily be way off A=440Hz. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 .... it's only rock and roll.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='475477' date='Apr 29 2009, 09:05 PM']No electronic tuners back then either so if there's no piano present they could easily be way off A=440Hz.[/quote] Tuning fork? Somehow I can't see it :-) Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 [quote name='endorka' post='475611' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:44 PM']Tuning fork? Somehow I can't see it :-) Jennifer[/quote] +1 Recording studio without a piano? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 You would always tune up to the piano, even if you weren't using one so you could add overdubs later. The Stones used a lot of harmonica, brass and piano so would not have been out of tune in the studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Just learned a load of american 80,s tunes and had a similair experiance of being slightly out,,, Someone just mentioned that the variances in electrical supply used can effect this,, eg the americans use differant voltages etc,,,,, totally believe this is rubbish,,,, but errrrr,,, is it possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='Toddy' post='475849' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:37 AM']Just learned a load of american 80,s tunes and had a similair experiance of being slightly out,,, Someone just mentioned that the variances in electrical supply used can effect this,, eg the americans use differant voltages etc,,,,, totally believe this is rubbish,,,, but errrrr,,, is it possible?[/quote] Not to the best of my knowledge. The US Europe thing, IIRC, is US classical musicians using 440hz , and Europeans varying this higher - e.g. 446hz. As regards the Stones (and other bands of the period) being out from 440 - obvious. It was the drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='skankdelvar' post='475898' date='Apr 30 2009, 12:25 PM']....As regards the Stones (and other bands of the period) being out from 440 - obvious. It was the drugs....[/quote] It was the Varispeed! Bands like the Stones have minions to tune their guitars, and those guys were always straight when working! edit for spelling Edited April 30, 2009 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxrossell Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 From production experience, I'd say that bands who are using only hand-tunable instruments a lot of the time just tune to each other and don't give a crap if they're in perfect A=440Hz Personally I don't see a problem with it if it sounds right, unless you're likely to want to add fixed-tuning instrument parts to it later. Damned if I'm gonna retune a whole piano just because the guitarist was a quarter-tone out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='475928' date='Apr 30 2009, 12:50 PM']It was the Varyspeed! Bands like the Stones have minions to tune their guitars, and those guys were always straight when working![/quote] Straight only by comparison with the Stones Have you ever met any of those old 60's roadies - I offer Lemmy as an example! You're right, completely different nowadays, of course, but back then, there were few if any 'guitar techs'. Mostly amp humpers and maybe a bloke with a soldering iron (e.g. Roger Mayer). Hendrix, a notorious out-of-concert-pitcher didn't have a guitar tech, and it showed. In the 60's, Townshend's man, Bob Pridden, was GP driver / roadie / stage asst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxrossell Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='475943' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:02 PM']Hendrix, a notorious out-of-concert-pitcher didn't have a guitar tech, and it showed.[/quote] You're darn right it did. I saw a video of this one show where his guitar just burst into flames! Shoddy workmanship, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I vote for varispeed. Some of those old Stones recordings sound terrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Jumping Jack Flash really threw me when I had to learn it at short notice once. Got the chords, then played along with the recording and....it's neither in B nor really Bb but somewhere between the two, just enough to make me suspect, like others here. it's basically down to a wrong tape speed, whether accidental or deliberate. There are lots of recording by lots of bands from that era that are accurately in tune enough to play along with the recordings without problem. Most Beatles songs I've tried seem to be pretty 'straight' tunings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KevB' post='475970' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:29 PM']Jumping Jack Flash really threw me when I had to learn it at short notice once. Got the chords, then played along with the recording and....it's neither in B nor really Bb but somewhere between the two, just enough to make me suspect, like others here. it's basically down to a wrong tape speed, whether accidental or deliberate. There are lots of recording by lots of bands from that era that are accurately in tune enough to play along with the recordings without problem. Most Beatles songs I've tried seem to be pretty 'straight' tunings.[/quote] Just remembered! He wrote the song on acoustic and played it, solo, into a small battery powered Philips cassette recorder. That recording was then bounced to a track in the studio where everyone played along with it. The early Philips record /playback speed was also a bit unstable, so add that to Keef playing on his own , probably stoned, and wonky pitch issue is resolved. There's a thread on the open tuning here: [url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-128340.html"]http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-128340.html[/url] which includes a ref to the cassette. Edited April 30, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.funk Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='Toddy' post='475849' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:37 AM']Someone just mentioned that the variances in electrical supply used can effect this,, eg the americans use differant voltages etc,,,,, totally believe this is rubbish,,,, but errrrr,,, is it possible?[/quote] I think some Jamaican records have this, quite a bit of wow and flutter (I think thats the vinyl term) due to fluctuating power supply changing the speed of the record! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='endorka' post='475611' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:44 PM']Tuning fork? Somehow I can't see it :-) Jennifer[/quote] Yeah, like Keith Richards was ever going to use a tuning fork... I should imagine their rehearsals would go something like this; "Mick, should I tune my Telecaster, or take some more cocaine?" Easy answer really I think it's kind of rock and roll to be out of tune really. Just check out a lot of Bowie stuff. I remember an interview on Radio 2 a while ago with Cliff Richard who was complaining that all the Beatles' stuff was out of tune what a moron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='KevB' post='475970' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:29 PM']Most Beatles songs I've tried seem to be pretty 'straight' tunings.[/quote] Pretty straight producer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerdragon Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I seem to remember getting a set of pipes. a bit like pan pipes to tune up to years ago. not very reliable. someone in the band was always out of tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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