Burns-bass Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 When I started playing DB I loved the rich timbre that you just can’t get anywhere else. I’ve spent my time trying to coax a deep, rich and unique tone form my bass (and mostly failing). Turns out, I’ve been doing it all wrong. I’ve (hopefully) got a gig playing blues classics, providing the old school percussive, slap bass that works. But I don’t really know what I’m doing. Can anyone recommend any good books (I prefer books to online tutorials, but will do so at a push) that can help with technique? If anyone in Bristol can highlight any love gigs where such playing will happen I shall ensure I’m there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Are there any videos / recordings that point in the direction of the sound you are looking for? I used to use my DB with Corelli 370s and a Schaller magnetic pickup for blues / folk. Percussive yes, like a p bass on steroids - yes. Slap, no chance, string tension too high. Later changed to silver slaps with realist pickup. Thumpy, slappable (my techniques was below poor) but no percussiveness. (I no longer have the DB but still do some EUB now and then). Try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cu1PvhhnU, she inspires me to think about DB again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Slap on DB is about long hours practicing. Precise timing is everything and I think that’s where most novices (like me) fall down. Important to remember that slap DB is, as the title suggests, a percussion instrument 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 Cheers Chris! I don’t need to spend more money on gear. I’ve done all that and am super happy with what I have (Bryant double bass, Spiros, Realist). My goal is to play jazz but I can turn down a gig. The guitarist just asked me to play more percussively and (if I’m honest) want some hints and tips. Id love a book, but as soon as you type slap bass into Google, well, you can guess… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 Ahh, I’ve found this book. Has anyone used this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Johnny-Hatton-Rockabilly-Bass/dp/1480354740/ref=asc_df_1480354740_nodl?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310081590442&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17914596399938464515&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045622&hvtargid=pla-521651458700&psc=1&th=1&psc=1&dplnkId=ed1c61b5-609f-44cc-af66-b81e86f96c37 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I fully relate to using books, they are my first choice over video / YouTube etc. Given the physical size of your DB, your height, arm reach and end pin height, is plucking nearer the bridge possible as per increasing bass guitar string attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Upright slap technique isn't particularly complicated, but it is demanding physically in a different way to jazz pizz playing. There are plenty of good explanations/demonstrations of the basics on youtube, but getting the execution right so you are using your energy with maximum efficiency and keeping relaxed will take a while. You can slap spiros(Milt Hinton does towards the end of this video) , but I wouldn't recommend it for learning the technique unless you are a masochist. Be sure and keep your practice sessions real short, as the callouses you need for slapping are in a different place than your pizz ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petebassist Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 17 hours ago, 3below said: Are there any videos / recordings that point in the direction of the sound you are looking for? I used to use my DB with Corelli 370s and a Schaller magnetic pickup for blues / folk. Percussive yes, like a p bass on steroids - yes. Slap, no chance, string tension too high. Later changed to silver slaps with realist pickup. Thumpy, slappable (my techniques was below poor) but no percussiveness. (I no longer have the DB but still do some EUB now and then). Try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cu1PvhhnU, she inspires me to think about DB again. That's a great video - thanks! Never played like that but would be a great technique to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, petebassist said: That's a great video - thanks! Never played like that but would be a great technique to have. Agree, I have tried but do not have the ability or stickabilty to 'get a grip on it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 19 hours ago, Burns-bass said: Cheers Chris! I don’t need to spend more money on gear. I’ve done all that and am super happy with what I have (Bryant double bass, Spiros, Realist). My goal is to play jazz but I can turn down a gig. The guitarist just asked me to play more percussively and (if I’m honest) want some hints and tips. Id love a book, but as soon as you type slap bass into Google, well, you can guess… Not sure I suggested you spend any money mate! A more percussive sound doesn't mean playing slap/pop either, I found my early percussive style organically when I switched from steels to guts; I often used my right hand to mute between notes to keep the rhythm tight - essentially using the fingertips to push back down on the string I'd just plucked usually on the off beat. Using high action and steels this was a pretty quiet process, but when I switched to slacker and lower guts I found I was pushing the string onto the fingerboard, causing a percussive slap tone on the off beat (one AND two AND three etc). We didn't have a drummer - although the guitarist used a stomp box usually on the on/three - and the guys in the band quite liked the two together it so i worked on getting it a bit tighter and it works quite nicely without ever being slap technique per se). Personally while I'm impressed by slap, I don't especially like hearing it, even when it's as well played as Nicolas Dubouchet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicknack Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 @Burns-bassIf you want some proper tuition on the subject Ian Jennings down in Exeter is one of the UK's finest, and he might be willing to spend some time with you. He's best known for playing with Jeff Beck and Andy Fairweather Low, both sadly non-active gigs now so he may have some time on his hands! Drop me a PM if you'd like me to enquire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Beedster said: Not sure I suggested you spend any money mate! A more percussive sound doesn't mean playing slap/pop either, I found my early percussive style organically when I switched from steels to guts; I often used my right hand to mute between notes to keep the rhythm tight - essentially using the fingertips to push back down on the string I'd just plucked usually on the off beat. Using high action and steels this was a pretty quiet process, but when I switched to slacker and lower guts I found I was pushing the string onto the fingerboard, causing a percussive slap tone on the off beat (one AND two AND three etc). We didn't have a drummer - although the guitarist used a stomp box usually on the on/three - and the guys in the band quite liked the two together it so i worked on getting it a bit tighter and it works quite nicely without ever being slap technique per se). Personally while I'm impressed by slap, I don't especially like hearing it, even when it's as well played as Nicolas Dubouchet Hi Chris, I meant our friend 3Below suggesting I change strings and set up. I’ve had a chat with the guy, and it seems I’ve sort of missed the point. He wanted me to play in a more rough and ready fashion, rather than the “refined” jazz approach. It seems I’ve misconstrued his request, and what he really want led me to do was to be a bit rough and percussively. So what you’ve said nails it. Because I still like to try and play my jazz stuff, and I’m trying my hardest not to spend cash, I’ll stick with what I’ve got and play with a little less of the mind and more of the heart! Really appreciate all the replies. I’ve very much enjoyed the DB journey. Edited January 12, 2023 by Burns-bass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: Hi Chris, I meant our friend 3Below suggesting I change strings and set up. I’ve had a chat with the guy, and it seems I’ve sort of missed the point. He wanted me to play in a more rough and ready fashion, rather than the “refined” jazz approach. It seems I’ve misconstrued his request, and what he really want led me to do was to be a bit rough and percussively. Because I like to play my jazz stuff, and I’m trying my hardest not to spend cash, I’ll stick with what I’ve got and play with a little less of the mind and more of the heart! Really appreciate all the replies. I did a blues DB gig 10 years ago in a decent sized music venue. I had a couple of beers beforehand and had a bit of a shocker note selection was bad, timing was bad, intonation was bad (the DB equivalent of Richie Benaud's classic "There's only three things wrong with English Cricket; they can't bat, they can't bowl, and they can't field"). At the end of the gig a guy came up to me and after some polite conversation including some flattery of my playing, he asked if I was free to play in more than one band. I said yes, assuming he was taking the fosters, but he wasn't, he genuinely thought my playing had what his band needed (and his band was pretty decent as well, I gigged with them several times). He was a jazzer Sounds like you might just need to have a couple of pre-gig beers and dig in a little more mate 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) @Burns-bass I was not suggesting a need to change any kit (more so given the very high quality kit you have), just outlining my experience. Good that the 'percussivness' request is now better explained and achievable. Onwards and upwards. @Beedster Encouraging to hear your experience and that I am not the only one, I can clearly remember one gig where it was if I had never played bass before and had only just picked it up 5 minutes beforehand. Edited January 12, 2023 by 3below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 12 minutes ago, 3below said: @Burns-bass I was not suggesting a need to change any kit (more so given the very high quality kit you have), just outlining my experience. Good that the 'percussivness' request is now better explained and achievable. Onwards and upwards. @Beedster Encouraging to hear your experience and that I am not the only one, I can clearly remember one gig where it was if I had never played bass before and had only just picked it up 5 minutes beforehand. @3below trust me mate, there are plenty of bad gigs in my history, the one above was the rare example that had a happy ending @Burns-bass one of my biggest problems with DB (especially with gut strings) has always been reducing the percussiveness, I played in a Trad folk band for a while (a very short while on reflection by mutual consent IIRC), and they were not impressed by the non-bass noises one bit. I suspect your problem is that you're too good a player mate 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Reading the above, are you actually after more of a baseline with percussive accents? I know a couple of guys who are awesome on the ratatatat rockabilly slapping, but it's not where I wanted to be. Anything like this? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, hubrad said: Reading the above, are you actually after more of a baseline with percussive accents? I know a couple of guys who are awesome on the ratatatat rockabilly slapping, but it's not where I wanted to be. Anything like this? This is *exactly* what I was talking about! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: This is *exactly* what I was talking about! Pretty much the percussiveness I get on a good day 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Beedster said: Pretty much the percussiveness I get on a good day 👍 All good. This has really helped! Now for some practice and see if I can get the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petebassist Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 11 hours ago, hubrad said: Reading the above, are you actually after more of a baseline with percussive accents? I know a couple of guys who are awesome on the ratatatat rockabilly slapping, but it's not where I wanted to be. Anything like this? Hugh Bradley showing how it's done - just the odd tap here & there works really well, especially when it's just the two of them. I think the double bass sound has to be a feature of the performance, otherwise I don't think it's worth draggin it along - if I'm gonna get drowned out with drums and other instruments, I'll play electric bass, cuts through much better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Hugh Bradley's style is something I try to emulate when play in my rock'n'roll / rockabilly band but a couple of points. 1. I bet he has calluses that you could roller-skate on, playing with that 'sliding off the string' technique. 2. In my experience, 'proper' slap DB simply disappears the moment you introduce a drummer. Most of the DB players I've seen on the circuit are either slapping or trying to, because that's what the genre demands, but if you actually listen with your ears rather than your eyes, there ain't nuthin' there. That's why faking it (my own choice of technique) works just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Happy Jack said: Hugh Bradley's style is something I try to emulate when play in my rock'n'roll / rockabilly band but a couple of points. 1. I bet he has calluses that you could roller-skate on, playing with that 'sliding off the string' technique. 2. In my experience, 'proper' slap DB simply disappears the moment you introduce a drummer. Most of the DB players I've seen on the circuit are either slapping or trying to, because that's what the genre demands, but if you actually listen with your ears rather than your eyes, there ain't nuthin' there. That's why faking it (my own choice of technique) works just fine. Cheers Jack! This is an acoustic gig with a blues singer. He’s really good and gets a lot of paid gigs in fairly small places, so the bass has to have that percussive feel to fill out the sound. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) Curiously, I've never actually developed much by way of callouses. I can't remember where I got this style from, just kinda osmosis as it fitted in, although a mate in Leeds loosely described it once. I think of it as a sort of jazz-slap. Works for me! If anyone's up for a bit of a Zoom session I'll show you the basis of it if you like. I occasionally get down to Bristol with Steve, as he lived there for a fair while. Do you locals know a brilliant harmonica player, Keith Warmington? They go back a long way, and I love getting to play with him as well! Edited January 13, 2023 by hubrad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 11 hours ago, hubrad said: Curiously, I've never actually developed much by way of callouses. I can't remember where I got this style from, just kinda osmosis as it fitted in, although a mate in Leeds loosely described it once. I think of it as a sort of jazz-slap. Works for me! If anyone's up for a bit of a Zoom session I'll show you the basis of it if you like. I occasionally get down to Bristol with Steve, as he lived there for a fair while. Do you locals know a brilliant harmonica player, Keith Warmington? They go back a long way, and I love getting to play with him as well! Yeah, that would be amazing! I’ve seen Keith play. Be great to see you when you’re down here gigging, so please share details. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJJS Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Did anyone mention Adam Ben Ezra? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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