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Ampeg, schmampeg

mildmanofrock

By mildmanofrock,
in Amps and Cabs

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[quote name='skankdelvar' post='468677' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:57 PM']Me and AM1 in agreement. Who'd a thought it.

Enjoy it while it lasts, peoples :)

Waiting for the lock![/quote]

You're not a bad sort really.

Still wouldn't share any of my chocolate cake with you though!

:rolleyes:

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='468680' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:59 PM']I'm sorry but I totally disagree. If you're still at the point of asking basic tone related questions how can you justify presenting such strong opinions and arguing them to death? If I gave you advice on how to wire your house and then you found I was posting a question elsewhere like "what's the difference between radial and ring main wiring?" wouldn't you feel that my advice was unqualified?[/quote]

You are making up your own interpretation of my Master Blaster question to fit your argument.

NOWHERE in that question did I mention tone. Not even vaguely.

I asked about PHRASING.

Now you are using that question to denigrate my opinion about finding Ampeg tone distinctive.

This is just an utterly weak argument, even by your standards.

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[quote name='cheddatom' post='468681' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:59 PM']Just because a sound is distinctive doesn't mean it can't be created by anything else. You're implying that nothing can create "that Ampeg tone" other than an Ampeg. Clearly Ampeg SVX VST Plug-in sh*ts on that claim.[/quote]

Not at all.

All sounds can be re-created to a degree, but they won't necessarily be identical or even really that close.

I have heard plenty emulations, some were actually quite close.

In fact, the Sansamp has a good Ampeg sound but it is still not identical.

Let's face it, if any of them had absolutely nailed it, Ampeg would be out of business.

In fact, if sound sampling as a "science" was absolutely nailed, we'd all be playing through a box, by which any sound could be re-created as an exact and identical copy of the original. We are not there yet.

It's still a relatively young "science".

All the sonic scientists in the world can offer up their theories of physics etc, but those things on the side of your head speak the truth.

Edited by AM1
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skankdelvar Grand Master

skankdelvar

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='468680' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:59 PM']I'm sorry but I totally disagree. If you're still at the point of asking basic tone related questions how can you justify presenting such strong opinions and arguing them to death? If I gave you advice on how to wire your house and then you found I was posting a question elsewhere like "what's the difference between radial and ring main wiring?" wouldn't you feel that my advice was unqualified?[/quote]

I think AM1 has covered this. Entirely sensible and no bearing on her opinion re: Mfr signature tone

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468680' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:59 PM']That isn't the case at all. It's a case of providing some perspective and weight behind all the opinions on here. Everyone's entitled to state their opinion but everyone should be open to their opinion being proved inaccurate and needing reconsideration. Despite what some may think my opinions are not fixed but those grounded in deeper understanding are less likely to change![/quote]

1. Your opinion is no more or less 'weighty' than anyone else's, however deep you may perceive your understanding to be. However I value your views on cabs and agree re variations between Ampeg Models.
2. An opinion is an opinion and cannot be proved 'inaccurate'.
3. Still a cheap shot. That's my opinion, which while not fixed, is less likely to change.

Edited by skankdelvar
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alexclaber Experienced

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[quote name='AM1' post='468688' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:03 PM']You are making up your own interpretation of my Master Blaster question to fit your argument.

NOWHERE in that question did I mention tone. Not even vaguely.[/quote]

That's exactly my point. You still aren't even considering the effect of where you're playing on the neck upon what tone you get.

Alex

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skankdelvar Grand Master

skankdelvar

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BTW, while this thread's still pulling high ratings - check out my Matsumoku Vantage in Basses for Sale.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=47088"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=47088[/url]

Now, back to WWF! :)

Edited by skankdelvar
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alexclaber Experienced

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[quote name='AM1' post='468695' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:09 PM']Let's face it, if any of them had absolutely nailed it, Ampeg would be out of business.[/quote]

If that was really the case Ampeg would have gone out of business too - I've lost count of how many threads I've read about how different (and how much better) the early SVTs sound compared to the current all-valve ones. And that's forgetting the solidstate and hybrid models.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='468696' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:10 PM']1. Your opinion is no more or less 'weighty' than anyone else's, however you deep may perceive your understanding to be. However I value your views on cabs and agree re variations between Ampeg Models.
2. An opinion is an opinion and cannot be proved 'inaccurate'.
3. Still a cheap shot. That's my opinion, which while not fixed, is less likely to change.[/quote]

1. My opinion on how to play jazz is far less weighty than Bilbo's. My opinion on how to play punk is less weighty than that of waynepunkdude's. My opinion on how to play funk is more weighty than either's but less weighty than some others.
2. At what point does an opinion become a statement of fact? And thus become true or false?
3. For a better cheap shot, check out AM1's other thread on ampage. Amazing what a guru she's become in a month.

Alex

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='468698' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:11 PM']That's exactly my point. You still aren't even considering the effect of where you're playing on the neck upon what tone you get.

Alex[/quote]

If I want to get a certain tone, I'll play in a certain place.

I was chasing phrasing, not tone.

How many times have I stated in my posts, I'm really into phrasing!!

Where you play has a massive bearing on not only tone, but phrasing.

You can bend the facts any way you like to suit your argument but it's convincing no one. Except possibly yourself.

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EBS_freak Grand Master

EBS_freak

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[quote name='Hamster' post='468721' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:25 PM']Why is it that Alex looks like he's wearing grip top stockings in his avatar - or is it me? :wacko:[/quote]

Ha ha - brilliant!!

I always thought it was because his bass weighs a tonne.

Edited by EBS_freak
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[quote name='alexclaber' post='468707' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:19 PM']If that was really the case Ampeg would have gone out of business too - I've lost count of how many threads I've read about how different (and how much better) the early SVTs sound compared to the current all-valve ones. And that's forgetting the solidstate and hybrid models.[/quote]

That's a different discussion altogether!

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468707' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:19 PM']1. My opinion on how to play jazz is far less weighty than Bilbo's. My opinion on how to play punk is less weighty than that of waynepunkdude's. My opinion on how to play funk is more weighty than either's but less weighty than some others.
2. At what point does an opinion become a statement of fact? And thus become true or false?
3. For a better cheap shot, check out AM1's other thread on ampage. Amazing what a guru she's become in a month.[/quote]

Well if I wanted to ask some really in-depth technical questions on ampage, what bearing does that have on my ears and my ability to recognise a certain tone.

You're making a habit here of conjuring up psuedo-arguments and credibility challenges, rather than offering any constructive advancement to the debate.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8kdWpB3U4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8kdWpB3U4[/url]

Where is the Ampeg simulation here? I picked it out first time.

You cannot disprove the fact that I can recognise a tone I find distinctive. I know what my ears tell me!

To keep doing so is just flogging a dead horse!

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skankdelvar Grand Master

skankdelvar

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='468707' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:19 PM']1. My opinion on how to play jazz is far less weighty than Bilbo's. My opinion on how to play punk is less weighty than that of waynepunkdude's. My opinion on how to play funk is more weighty than either's but less weighty than some others.
2. At what point does an opinion become a statement of fact? And thus become true or false?
3. For a better cheap shot, check out AM1's other thread on ampage. Amazing what a guru she's become in a month.[/quote]

In my opinion, opinions carry some, but not much, weight, because they're opinions. For a definitive opinion on 'facts', check out AM1's fine, and indeed, [i]weighty[/i] post on the subject elsewhere, which I can't be arsed to find.

Some people are born 'Gurus' - time's not a factor in the equation. :)

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skankdelvar Grand Master

skankdelvar

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I bow to no man in my admiration for the sound of a monstrous Behringer stack at full, eyeball-popping crank. Blows yer Ampegs, Sunns, Mesas (Burmans :) :rolleyes:) into the weeds.

Not an opinion. Fact. Rooted in spiritual truth at the deepest levels of the cosmos.

And I've been playing (without cease or even a toilet break) for 35 years straight, so I should know.

[i](Edit for Burman abuse)[/i]

Edited by skankdelvar
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cheddatom Grand Master

cheddatom

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[quote name='AM1' post='468695' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:09 PM']Not at all.

All sounds can be re-created to a degree, but they won't necessarily be identical or even really that close.

I have heard plenty emulations, some were actually quite close.

In fact, the Sansamp has a good Ampeg sound but it is still not identical.

Let's face it, if any of them had absolutely nailed it, Ampeg would be out of business.

In fact, if sound sampling as a "science" was absolutely nailed, we'd all be playing through a box, by which any sound could be re-created as an exact and identical copy of the original. We are not there yet.

It's still a relatively young "science".

All the sonic scientists in the world can offer up their theories of physics etc, but those things on the side of your head speak the truth.[/quote]

If I play through an Ampeg with all of the bass and middle turned off, will it still sound like an ampeg? What if I use a Sansamp and plug it into the FX return on an Ampeg? Does it sound like a Sansamp or an Ampeg?

Like I say, I agree that a certain range of tones are available from different amps, and from amp to amp this range can differ in width. However, you still think you'll be able to tell if an amp is an ampeg or not without looking, and that's rediculous, clearly, as each Ampeg has a range of tones available, and other amps cover some of this range in their range (if you know what I mean).

Yes, there is an "ampeg sound", yes, they have a tonal character to them (which Ampeg you're talking about god knows, there are a few different models!!) and yes you could say "wow, that's the ampeg sound" or "they have nailed the classic Ampeg tone". However, to say that the ONLY way of getting a tone within the range available from a given Ampeg amp is to use that specific amp, it's just crazy. There are so many different amps out there with so many options and settings and such wide ranges of tones available, not to mention all of the computer modelling etc.

Oh yeh, and about the Ampeg SVX VST plug-in - Have you tried it? Have you tried it with some great headphones? Have you tried it on a great computer with a great soundcard running into a poweramp running into an 8 x 10"?

I went into Magic Garden studios who do a lot of pro work, and he has an Ampeh head which he's not touched since buying the SVX plug-in.

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