Ampeg, schmampeg

[mildmanofrock]

She?

Hey AM, I had you down as a big hairy-bummed bloke bassplayer!

Great stuff!

[alexclaber]

I know it might seem hard to believe from atop your ivory tower but there is so much tone within the instrument itself that you have yet to find. Give me any half decent bass and amp and I can get almost any tone you could want with hardly any fiddling with the amps controls. You certainly entitled to state your own opinion but anyone reading this needs to be able to place it in context.

I've been posting on forums and their predecessors since I started playing bass - over time my posts have shifted from total newbie questions ("How can I get my 30W combo heard in a metal band?") through more searching enquiries to generally answering others' questions. But to put myself in a position where I feel qualified to give good advice has taken years of obsession over bass playing and the design of instruments and amplification.

You don't have to know everything already.

Alex

[AM1]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='468517' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:12 PM']She?

Hey AM, I had you down as a big hairy-bummed bloke bassplayer!

Great stuff![/quote]

The power of assumption is absolutely fantastic!

Am chuckling away to myself here!



Fear not though, I'm working on the classic bassplayer beer-gut, it's coming along nicely!

A keg is better than a six-pack!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='468516' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:12 PM']PS - I take it if Alex is building cabs professionally, he has done all the paperwork for running a business and HMRC know. It just seems a little... erm, risky selling your wares in such a public way.[/quote]

Yes I have - and what a joy all that admin is...

Alex

[The Funk]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='467979' date='Apr 20 2009, 11:50 PM']I suppose after 15 years absence from bass playing, I was fixated with all things Ampeg. So, I bought it. And, to my ears, it sounds alright. [...]

should I admit my brand-loyal naivety, axe the Ampeg, and buy stuff beginning with 'E'?[/quote]

So, I think everyone's agreed that you buy and hang onto stuff that sounds good to you, regardless of brand.

There's also a big disagreement over whether Ampeg as a brand has its own distinctive sound - and as to whether the various products in the Ampeg catalogue share such a sound.

[AM1]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468539' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:19 PM']So, I think everyone's agreed that you buy and hang onto stuff that sounds good to you, regardless of brand.

There's also a big disagreement over whether Ampeg as a brand has its own distinctive sound - and as to whether the various products in the Ampeg catalogue share such a sound.[/quote]

But more importantly, you admitted that you've been in some dodgy movie and didn't discount making another

[The Funk]

Times is hard.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468544' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:22 PM']Times is hard.[/quote]

Didn't know there were three of you.

S.P.

[mildmanofrock]

[quote name='The Funk' post='468539' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:19 PM']So, I think everyone's agreed that you buy and hang onto stuff that sounds good to you, regardless of brand.

There's also a big disagreement over whether Ampeg as a brand has its own distinctive sound - and as to whether the various products in the Ampeg catalogue share such a sound.[/quote]

Agreed - well put.

Thanks for your thoughts folks - you all confirm why I think this forum is bloody fantastic.

[stevie]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='468557' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:27 PM']Agreed - well put.

Thanks for your thoughts folks - you all confirm why I think this forum is bloody fantastic.[/quote]

Don't you just love a happy ending?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468527' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:15 PM']I know it might seem hard to believe from atop your ivory tower but there is so much tone within the instrument itself that you have yet to find. Give me any half decent bass and amp and I can get almost any tone you could want with hardly any fiddling with the amps controls. You certainly entitled to state your own opinion but anyone reading this needs to be able to place it in context.

I've been posting on forums and their predecessors since I started playing bass - over time my posts have shifted from total newbie questions ("How can I get my 30W combo heard in a metal band?") through more searching enquiries to generally answering others' questions. But to put myself in a position where I feel qualified to give good advice has taken years of obsession over bass playing and the design of instruments and amplification.

You don't have to know everything already.

Alex[/quote]

Ivory tower? Why was that called for? There is hardly any ivory tower near me. The only thing ivory around here is my bathroom suite.

I agree, you don't have to touch the amp to get the most out of your instrument... but you won't get the same tones... but there is no point in explaining why because I wouldn't want to give you the satisfaction on you saying why I am wrong. By all means, next time you are at a bass bash, we'll see who can coax the most tones. You heard Bernie demo at the last one you went to. Exactly. There is no passive bass which can get the sort of tones that you can out of GBs. But that's enough said on that matter.

And I hardly know everything... but I know enough to make me happy.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='468583' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:40 PM']Ivory tower? Why was that called for? There is hardly any ivory tower near me. The only thing ivory around here is my bathroom suite.[/quote]

Sorry for the confusion but I was looking at you whilst talking to AM1. The perils of sightlines from down here to up there.

Alex

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468591' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:43 PM']Sorry for the confusion but I was looking at you whilst talking to AM1. The perils of sightlines from down here to up there.

Alex[/quote]

The avatar. Everybody loves the avatar.

[AM1]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468591' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:43 PM']Sorry for the confusion but I was looking at you whilst talking to AM1. The perils of sightlines from down here to up there.

Alex[/quote]

Are you off again?!

It's like the Grand National this, except usually when a horse falls, it doesn't get back up!

I'm getting strange looks here because of how much I'm laughing!

[stevie]

[quote name='AM1' post='468598' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:47 PM']Are you off again?!

It's like the Grand National this, except usually when a horse falls, it doesn't get back up!

I'm getting strange looks here because of how much I'm laughing!

[/quote]
He's running in the pompous stakes and winning by a length.

[Dubs]

[quote name='stevie' post='468603' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:50 PM']He's running in the pompous stakes and winning by a length.[/quote]

I’m not sure about that, but he’s definitely winning in the fact vs opinion race…

[cheddatom]

It's obvious that amps sound different and have an individual "character". Some amps are more flexible than others. I would generally regard an Ampeg as not very flexible. I think this is due to the sort of "character" built into the pre-amp. It's true that you can use the settings on your bass, on the amp, and varying your playing style to acheive similar tones from one amp to the next. What's clearly not true is that you can get any sound from any amp. Especially if you're relying on the pre-amp.

Alex - What if nick oliveri asked you to get his distorted valve-driven sound out of my peavey combo?

I personally treat my pedalboard as one big very flexible pre-amp, and whatever amp i'm using as a PA. This way I can extremely close to the exact same tone out of a wide variety of rigs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='468635' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:17 PM']Alex - What if nick oliveri asked you to get his distorted valve-driven sound out of my peavey combo?[/quote]

Might have to dig my BassDrive out of retirement for that! OK, so it won't be perfect but it'll do.

My point in general is that you can't just say that "That is the Ampeg Sound". There have been so many different sounds recorded over the years through Ampeg rigs, and even more live instances heard, that the Ampeg sound covers pretty much the whole spectrum of bass tones - from Jamerson's rare live outings, through about half the rock bassists from 1970 to now, to even Victor Wooten's slap antics (until very recently).

But why I'm arguing with this point with someone who's just asked:

[quote name='AM1' post='468578' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:37 PM']What do you guys do in terms of working out the best fingering/fretboard position, for a piece of music?

The score doesn't show anything?

The immediate theme after the octave intro...there's a certain type of phrasing that you hear in the original, but recreating that means working out the notes in a certain position on the fretboard.

When you see a series of notes written down, those notes can be played in several different positions on the bass, I'd be interested in what method is used to decide where to play.[/quote]

is baffling me. If you're still at the stage where you're learning about the tonal differences across and up and down the neck why on earth are you digging your heels into a determined argument about tone?

Alex

[cheddatom]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468644' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:27 PM']My point in general is that you can't just say that "That is the Ampeg Sound". There have been so many different sounds recorded over the years through Ampeg rigs, and even more live instances heard, that the Ampeg sound covers pretty much the whole spectrum of bass tones - from Jamerson's rare live outings, through about half the rock bassists from 1970 to now, to even Victor Wooten's slap antics (until very recently).[/quote]

Yeh I totally agree with that.

Incidentally, some people will be able to convince themselves of their ability to recognise a specific brand just because of the sheer popularity IE I bet that guitarist's using a marshall, just from hearing it. Well what do you know, you're right! Except you were always "odds on".

[skankdelvar]

Dirty pool, Alex. Using someone's genuine query on another thread to diss 'em.

AM1 and I have had our moments, too, and she can sometimes be ...err..."high maintenance" - but that's just uncalled for.

Also - those of you who feel that posting an opinion about a [i]sound[/i] requires years of experience, that 'less experienced' posters should gracefully roll over when challenged by self-appointed experts and that moonlighting as a semi-pro cab builder entitles you to sneer at a genuine query - you know what you can do and where you can do it.

Edited April 21, 2009 by skankdelvar

[AM1]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='468644' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:27 PM']But why I'm arguing with this point with someone who's just asked...is baffling me. If you're still at the stage where you're learning about the tonal differences across and up and down the neck why on earth are you digging your heels into a determined argument about tone?[/quote]

My question about Master Blaster score was actually about phrasing and nothing to do with tone. Sure, we can all chase a bit more resonance through the bottom strings, low end, but my question focuses around A) phrasing of Master Blaster and B ) deciding where to play certain sequences on the neck. There are other factors which need to be considered other than tone!

As for Ampeg, as I said already, I can and have picked it out of recordings and live performances.

I find it distinctive. It seems you think you know my own ears better than me!

I find Ampeg recognisable.

It's that simple.

I don't know why you are arguing with me over something I know from my own personal experience, to be fact!

Again - my music background is not limited to the bass, which I am new to, but that not mean that my opinion is any less valid.

Does one have to spend years making alcohol to be able to recognise the taste of wine?

Edited April 21, 2009 by AM1

[AM1]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='468669' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:48 PM']Dirty pool, Alex. Using someone's genuine query on another thread to diss 'em.

AM1 and I have had our moments, too, and she can sometimes be ...err..."high maintenance" - but that's just uncalled for.

Also - those of you who feel that posting an opinion about a [i]sound[/i] requires years of experience, that 'less experienced' posters should gracefully roll over when challenged by self-appointed experts and that moonlighting as a semi-pro cab builder entitles you to sneer at a genuine query - you know what you can do and where you can do it.[/quote]

Well said that man!

[skankdelvar]

Me and AM1 in agreement. Who'd a thought it.

Enjoy it while it lasts, peoples

Waiting for the lock!

Edited April 21, 2009 by skankdelvar

[alexclaber]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='468669' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:48 PM']Dirty pool, Alex. Using someone's genuine query on another thread to diss 'em.[/quote]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. If you're still at the point of asking basic tone related questions how can you justify presenting such strong opinions and arguing them to death? If I gave you advice on how to wire your house and then you found I was posting a question elsewhere like "what's the difference between radial and ring main wiring?" wouldn't you feel that my advice was unqualified?

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='468669' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:48 PM']Also - those of you who feel that posting an opinion about a sound requires years of experience, that 'less experienced' posters should gracefully roll over when challenged by self-appointed experts and that moonlighting as a semi-pro cab builder entitles you to sneer at a genuine query...[/quote]

That isn't the case at all. It's a case of providing some perspective and weight behind all the opinions on here. Everyone's entitled to state their opinion but everyone should be open to their opinion being proved inaccurate and needing reconsideration. Despite what some may think my opinions are not fixed but those grounded in deeper understanding are less likely to change!

Alex

[cheddatom]

[quote name='AM1' post='468671' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:51 PM']I find Ampeg recognisable.

It's that simple.[/quote]

But they do have a few different models that sound very different to each other. You're saying you can recognise them all as Ampeg? And can you pick out the individual models? Why not? They're very different sounding!

One day you'll be outside a gig and decide that your expert ears can tell it's an ampeg inside. Then when you get inside it'll be a POD XT or a Marshall VBA or a DHA head or a Zoom B2.1U going straight into the PA.

Just because a sound is distinctive doesn't mean it can't be created by anything else. You're implying that nothing can create "that Ampeg tone" other than an Ampeg. Clearly Ampeg SVX VST Plug-in sh*ts on that claim.