Real world experience of Clean amps, HIFI amps, Tube amps, baked in sound...

[stevie]

I agree with that. But bear in mind that the recording engineer will usually have started with a relatively flat-response, uncoloured signal and modified it to suit his purposes.

[Nebadon2000]

As said before most design engineers 'Voice' their Amps/Cabinets to preference; usually by committee after following basic design parameter's.

 

But it is combination of Amp, Speaker and room that have final say.

 

Technically a FRFR Active powered Speaker [PA] with instrument input should give you best chance but most I have tried Sound Awful with Bass IMO everything set flat The QSC 12.2 was ok

 

Now Myers may have what is needed but at a Hefty Price.

 

I would give Genzler with FRFR Barefaced cab a listen

[nilorius]

On 13/10/2022 at 14:40, Jaybeevee said:

Can i get some real world experience or advice?

I'm in the market for a new (used) amp. My bass amp experience i can count on one hand but include Mesa tube amp, Ashdown, Old peavy SS amp, Tecamp and Markbass. I think all of these coloured my sound providing varying degrees of warmth, fattnes etc. What i am wondering about is how amps which are so called HiFi amps, or are designed to deliver clean sound only or 'the sound of your bass' actually sound and work compared to Amps which are designed to colour you sound? Do they 'suck out the vintage' from old P basses (as i have read), are they only good for Soap bar basses (as i have read) or not that suitable for this genre or better for this or that. Can a decent EQ section warm things thicken things up? Do they need to be warmed up? Just throw a tube pre amp or other pedal infront? 

 

For me, i enjoy my vintage basses and have a couple of boutique basses with my current collection pretty much covered by P basses, J bass, Yam BB and a stingray and TKS 112 cabs. I play usually guitar based bands of various forms but pretty much rockish based. My skills are somewhere in the intermediate area (no pro here) and play mostly pubs and gig venues usually through the PA.. There are a couple few intriguing amps for sale on here and locally to me that are 'clean amps' such as thunderfunk, Glocks, Aggi AG700 Epifani, Eden..  I really fancy any of these, but then i get cold feet about it and think i need a Mesa Walkabout or Ampeg or Ashdown or simillar.

Any thought please? Real world for someone at my level... 

Cheers

Jay

I have tried a lot, but not equaly as you, but the cleanest and best vintage sound i got was from Aguilar tone hammer series. In my possition i took 500 versian and i am happy and don't think of any changes anymore.

[Nebadon2000]

7 hours ago, nilorius said:

I think all of these coloured my sound

Where are you getting 'My Sound' from?

[Jaybeevee]

I decided to gain my own real world experience and pulled the trigger on the fine looking Thunderfunk in the classifieds here. Looking forward to it immensely…

[Jaybeevee]

9 hours ago, Nebadon2000 said:

Where are you getting 'My Sound' from?

From the Thunderfunk very shortly 

[dclaassen]

With the stipulation that we bass players are tone obsessed….

 

”My sound” is the tone in my head when I imagine myself playing. That comes from lots of experience and also hearing great bass tone live and on recordings. I set up in whatever venue, dial in the basic tone I want, then tweak it a bit on the first few tunes of the set. Easy with a rock covers band in a crowded pub…harder with a jazz band on stage somewhere.

 

Different styles require different gear, and each has a different tone I’m aiming for.

[nilorius]

16 hours ago, Nebadon2000 said:

Where are you getting 'My Sound' from?

Where do you se me wroting  'My Sound' ????????????

[Nebadon2000]

4 hours ago, nilorius said:

Where do you se me wroting  'My Sound' ????????????

"I think all of these coloured my sound"

 

For those amps to 'Colour' your [my] sound you must have a reference or expectation?

Edited October 16, 2022 by Nebadon2000

[nilorius]

1 hour ago, Nebadon2000 said:

"I think all of these coloured my sound"

 

For those amps to 'Colour' your [my] sound you must have a reference or expectation?

The one and only post i made was about Aguilar clean vintage sound. Jaybeevee said about colouring his sound.

 

1 hour ago, Nebadon2000 said:

 

 

[itu]

On 15/10/2022 at 17:46, Nebadon2000 said:

Technically a FRFR Active powered Speaker [PA] with instrument input should give you best chance but most I have tried Sound Awful with Bass IMO everything set flat

Really? PA speakers are known for their output rather than response. Don't get me wrong, flat hifi response means drastic cutting of several frequency regions, which equals low sensitivity. It is OK, because the power (loudness) level at home is low, maybe a watt or even less. Sensitivity can be fractions of percent, like 0.1 %.

 

PA (including instrument amps+cabs) has to be powerful. If you want flat response and you want loudness, the low sensitivity would equal enormous power levels. A PA speaker may have sensitivity in the 2 - 3 % level. This can be something like 30 times more than in a hifi system. Would you like to haul a PA system that pushes 500 watts/side or 15 kW/side to a club gig? And this was only the amp.

 

This FRFR nonsense is a joke. It is OK to claim a system is FRFR = funny response & funny range. But before I see a measured response, I need to be alert.

 

Learn, measure, understand.

or

Spread the marketing stuff, believe everything they say, get disappointed.

Edited October 16, 2022 by itu

[machinehead]

13 hours ago, Jaybeevee said:

I decided to gain my own real world experience and pulled the trigger on the fine looking Thunderfunk in the classifieds here. Looking forward to it immensely…

I have one (Thunderfunk)  that has been my main gigging amp for several years.  I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Frank.

[3below]

Just to add more fun to this is the issue of getting and keeping 'the tone / my sound' at home, small rehearsal, recording and war volume (if this is possible).  Throw into this the effect of room acoustics and the situation gets even more complex.  You could of course  have a linear pre amp > pa amp > some FRFR (or what alludes to be FRFR) speakers.  Once you get it into the room use a DBX driverack and autoeq at the volume you will be playing at (where will you place the mic for autoeq'ing is another complexity). Everything will be really flat (if the kit is doing what it claims) until the audience fills the room.   Replace the linear pre amp with  your pre amp of choice (Helix, Sansamp, whatever).  Will it sound any good in the context of the band is anyone's guess.  At this point I am losing the will to live so I will just plug it in, pray the guitarists are playing at a sane volume and tweak my eq  until I get something I am fairly happy with. @dclaassen summarised it all very nicely for me.  

[Nebadon2000]

On 16/10/2022 at 16:37, nilorius said:

The one and only post i made was about Aguilar clean vintage sound. Jaybeevee said about colouring his sound.

 

 

Sorry I meant to Address Jaybeevee; Senior Moment😀

[msb]

Clean HiFi amps are a relatively new phenomena. The old stuff got pretty grimy once you cranked it up.

 

 

 

Now mind you ,there are those that love that old cranked up grime.

[Jaybeevee]

I’m gonna round off this thread that I started. I was looking for some real world experience between tube and hybrid amps vs so called clean amps to help me in my amp downsizing decisions. I decided to gain my own real world experience by indulging the bass enthusiast in me and purchased a used Thunderfunk TFB 550 from @AxelF. So moving from a Mesa tube head and a 4x12 powerhouse  to the Thunderfunk and a couple of TKS 112s has shown me that clean amps don’t mean you ‘loose’ anything, and chat forum opinions are just that. The Thunderfunk  just a different kind awesomeness to the Mesa . The Thunderfunk is warm and creamy with loads of controlled bottom end. It doesn’t drive at all, just loads of clean power all the way. It lacks a little in the extended highs compared to the Mesa, but I’m not missing it for what I do. 
the moral of the story is I now love my Thunderfunk like I loved my Mesa, and have the best Pbass tone I’ve ever managed. 
happy days

and thanks @AxelF 

[3below]

A good result, playing with a tone that you really like is one of life's pleasures, it makes you want to play.

[machinehead]

2 hours ago, Jaybeevee said:

I’m gonna round off this thread that I started. I was looking for some real world experience between tube and hybrid amps vs so called clean amps to help me in my amp downsizing decisions. I decided to gain my own real world experience by indulging the bass enthusiast in me and purchased a used Thunderfunk TFB 550 from @AxelF. So moving from a Mesa tube head and a 4x12 powerhouse  to the Thunderfunk and a couple of TKS 112s has shown me that clean amps don’t mean you ‘loose’ anything, and chat forum opinions are just that. The Thunderfunk  just a different kind awesomeness to the Mesa . The Thunderfunk is warm and creamy with loads of controlled bottom end. It doesn’t drive at all, just loads of clean power all the way. It lacks a little in the extended highs compared to the Mesa, but I’m not missing it for what I do. 
the moral of the story is I now love my Thunderfunk like I loved my Mesa, and have the best Pbass tone I’ve ever managed. 
happy days

and thanks @AxelF 

That's a great result.  Enjoy your Thunderfunk.  They're superb amps and repairable, unlike most class D amps.  I love mine.

Frank.

[AxelF]

Really pleased you're enjoying it - it served me brilliantly and like you said it's got a ton of controlled bottom end and doesn't know when to quit!

[Jaybeevee]

7 hours ago, 3below said:

A good result, playing with a tone that you really like is one of life's pleasures, it makes you want to play.

That is so true 

[Reggaebass]

On 13/10/2022 at 16:27, msb said:

And the preamp , Monique

 

Here powered by a Demeter Minnie , 800 watts.

Really like those, I don’t need one, I use an Ampeg valve amp but whenever one comes up for sale im always tempted 

[msb]

I’ve been watching , and waiting , and hoping to find a used one. Might eventually wind up ordering a new one from Jule. But I’ve got a great gig rig , and nice home practice rigs now. 
It’s not something I need, but it’s something I’d love to have.

[jazzyvee]

As for bass heads with a baked in sound i've only had a Mesa Walkabout head, since around 2004 and other than the noisy fan and hiss when turned up loud it is still a great amp in my view. 

I moved to a more hifi setup as my regular rig with alembic preamps and a class D Crown power amp. The difference is night and day but i still love the mesa. 

The thing for me is that i have always liked clean sounding bass. i came into bass much later in life so didn't go through any classic amps or cabs. So for me a hifi rig ticks the right boxes and works well with my barefaced cabs. My previous mesa cabs were really good but struggled  with bottom end. 

[msb]

I have two larger Class D heads , a Bergantino Forte, which is clean and transparent , and a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 . 900 watts with a three tube preamp. The tubes give things a nice warmth , and you can dial in some serious gain , or run it fairly clean . It’s a versatile amp.
It can get very warm and dark. 
Two very different amps.