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What's needed on a live set up for DB?


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Hello all

 

I've been playing a bit of double bass on Jamulus over the past couple of years - acoustic hot club style trio with 2 guitarists - and now there's a chance of doing an actual live gig (open air, summer). My system for going online has been a simple clip on mic positioned over the F hole, through mixer desk into interface and into PC. I have for my EB, a Trace amp and MarkBass traveler cab. Various PA speakers are available, too.

 

What is the recommended set up for an open air gig - acoustic trio - though guitarists with own amps, presumably? Or what do you do?

 

Many thanks

 

Juliet

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Get it right with the clip-on mic and it will do a good job for you. Get it wrong, or find yourself with a ham-fisted sound guy, and welcome to feedback central. If in any doubt at all, then you're probably best off fitting a Schaller magnetic pickup or a Realist piezo pickup.

 

If all you need is on-stage monitoring, and you'd prefer to have your own rather than relying on the PA, then at such low volumes your existing rig for electric bass should be fine.

 

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How about a J-Tone bridge-wing pickup and a Studiospares 458190 (discontinued so secondhand); that'd sort you right out!

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/jtoneelectronique

https://www.studiospares.com/studiospares-di-boxpreamp-458190.htm 

 

It'd have a lot of tone shaping / phase options for a small amount of money and would (to a certain degree) mitigate the risk of feedback.

 

Thanks

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5 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

My Trace amp needs the pre2 engaged or it feeds back. Whatever mids it cuts is right in breadbasket of the primary feedback frequency of my bass. You should definitely try out the rig with a bit of volume to see where you are at with FB.

 

Agreed that you should experiment, but I suspect that you'll find amp placement is easily as important as the settings.

 

On electric bass, most of us put our amp/combo/whatever directly behind us so we can hear it more clearly. On double bass that simply directs the greatest volume at the largest feedback source on stage ... not smart. You need to have your foldback feeding your ears, not the back of the bass or the f-holes.

Edited by Happy Jack
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23 hours ago, julietgreen said:

Hello all

 

I've been playing a bit of double bass on Jamulus over the past couple of years - acoustic hot club style trio with 2 guitarists - and now there's a chance of doing an actual live gig (open air, summer). My system for going online has been a simple clip on mic positioned over the F hole, through mixer desk into interface and into PC. I have for my EB, a Trace amp and MarkBass traveler cab. Various PA speakers are available, too.

 

What is the recommended set up for an open air gig - acoustic trio - though guitarists with own amps, presumably? Or what do you do?

 

Many thanks

 

Juliet

Hi, I don't know much about recommended setups, but one thing I do find really handy is a pre-amp with volume that I can clip to my belt, so I can control tone & vol without having to move. It's quite discreet as well, so if the sound-person hasn't got it quite right, i can fiddle with the sound without them seeing 😎

Something like this:

https://www.andertons.co.uk/k-k-sound-pure-preamp-kkpurepreamp?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&gclid=Cj0KCQiA95aRBhCsARIsAC2xvfxj10n1TN_Sf8fD9BovHPyMpOOOjZGMOAwAvrG-XgK_XXu6LCXvQJIaAuMyEALw_wcB

 

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55 minutes ago, julietgreen said:

Many thanks for all the replies.

 

At a basic level, are people saying it's plausible to put the mic into the Trace, as long as I deal with fb?

 

J

I'd say yes.

I'd just keep the amp & speakers well away from the bass and other amps, and maybe to the side rather than behind, and have an auto trip switch plug  in the power socket to avoid getting

electrocuted... I also put gaffer tape over the sound holes, but even that doesn't always work, I always take my fretless Ibanez SRH500F as a back up. 

Edited by petebassist
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1 hour ago, julietgreen said:

Many thanks for all the replies.

 

At a basic level, are people saying it's plausible to put the mic into the Trace, as long as I deal with fb?

 

J

 

If your'e not expecting to turn your amp up stupid loud, then there's no reason your mic shouldn't work - assuming you have a XLR input on your Trace amp (or your mic has a jack plug output)?  Feedback can be mitigated by trying different mic placements and positioning yourself so your speaker cab isn't firing directly at the body of your bass. Some people find it helpful to raise the cab up high so it's at your head level.

 

 

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2 hours ago, julietgreen said:

Many thanks for all the replies.

 

At a basic level, are people saying it's plausible to put the mic into the Trace, as long as I deal with fb?

 

J

Not exactly.

 

The mic needs to go into another 'mic' preamp that provides the Trace with working signal. 

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39 minutes ago, NickA said:

Outdoors? Unless you put your amp facing right onto the bass, you'd need to play silly loud to get feedback.

 

In theory, agreed.

 

In practice, playing a large enclosed stage at a decent Summer festival with an over-exuberant foldback monitor (controlled by the sound guy) pointed at you and your DB? Well, bin there, dun that, bought the earplugs.

 

The word 'outdoors' covers a multitude of sins ...

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You could always buy this from me, its the proverbial Swiss army knife for acoustic bass and has the really useful notch filter for those problematic feedback frequencies. Only selling as an old hand injury makes double bass or EUB playing too painful. 

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Juliet, as in all the best forums things start to teeter on the out of control. When I was in my early days all talk of preamps and notch filters would scare the hell out of me. So here’s some simple advice. Use your existing amp and plug your mic in. That will probably be ok for starters but if you can get a bridge wing pickup that will probably work better.  Then see how you get on with that. In time you will feel that there’s something lacking in your sound, and so there will be. But you will have a reference on which to build.

 

The advantage in playing outdoors is that you won’t get the room acoustics that can spoil the amplified bass sound.

 

As NickA posted, you will be most unlikely to suffer with feedback outdoors.

 

But at least make sure that everything works before you leave home.

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On 07/03/2022 at 10:20, DanOwens said:

How about a J-Tone bridge-wing pickup and a Studiospares 458190 (discontinued so secondhand); that'd sort you right out!

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/jtoneelectronique

https://www.studiospares.com/studiospares-di-boxpreamp-458190.htm 

 

It'd have a lot of tone shaping / phase options for a small amount of money and would (to a certain degree) mitigate the risk of feedback.

 

Thanks

I have a J-Tone pickup and while a little bit unsubtle in terms of sound, it's feedback-proof, pretty inexpensive and very usable, especially on a louder gig (I have a Realist for the quieter gigs where I want a more natural sound). I plug it straight into my amp and with some EQ fiddling I'm ready to go.

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I’ve found clip-on mics, which are invariably condenser types, to be quite problematic regarding feedback, even outdoors and at moderate to low amplified volumes. If you’re going this route, you’ll need a way to cut the low frequencies (high pass filter), which are most likely to cause feedback. It’s good to have a plan B, such as an inexpensive piezo pickup, or take an electric bass just in case. There are too many variables outdoors, and it’s quite remarkable how much wind noise a clip on mic can pick up.

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  • 4 weeks later...

A clip-on mic going into a whacking great Trace Elliot sounds like a bit of a recipe for feedback hell to me. I tried using an attached mic for live DB for a while (Sennheiser e608) but it wasn't really workable from point of view of feedback. The double bass is carefully designed to vibrate freely at the frequencies of its own notes...

I've had very satisfactory results with a K&K Bass Max pickup going into an Art Tube preamp, for what it's worth, but my impression is that every double bass player will recommend a different combination. 

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There's only one rule that can be applied to amplifying a specific double bass using a specific mic and amp. You simply won't know until you try. Do not spend any cash until you know that what you have doesn't work. And then be prepared to remortgage the house, sell some organs for medical research, and possibly become a cat burglar if the first two don't produce enough cash. I have a 4/4 that produces zero feedback using a mic that produces nothing but feedback for the guy I sold the mic to, but I have a Yamaha SLB-100 that I can get to produce monstrous feedback using a wing PUP. Explain that?

 

All I can assume from my experience is that God long ago decided that double basses should not be amplified and that the lives of anyone who tries to do so should be made as close to hell as possible 🤔 

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