Thinking of forming a covers band - Advice needed

[OldGit]

[quote name='HeavyJay' post='455509' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:43 PM']If you hate a song, you won't give it your all, end up resenting playing it and audiences notice that.[/quote]


.. but only every do that in rehearsal.
If you loose the argument about a tune and it gets into the set list then play it as if you love it. Every time.

There's always something in every tune that you can work on to help you improve yourself as a player.

And once you've learned to fake sincerity you have it made as a covers artists ....

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='OldGit' post='455517' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:52 PM'].. but only every do that in rehearsal.
If you loose the argument about a tune and it gets into the set list then play it as if you love it. Every time.

There's always something in every tune that you can work on to help you improve yourself as a player.

And once you've learned to fake sincerity you have it made as a covers artists ....
[/quote]

+1000.

[HeavyJay]

[quote name='OldGit' post='455517' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:52 PM'].. but only every do that in rehearsal.
If you loose the argument about a tune and it gets into the set list then play it as if you love it. Every time.

There's always something in every tune that you can work on to help you improve yourself as a player.

And once you've learned to fake sincerity you have it made as a covers artists ....
[/quote]

Nothing like a bit of fake sincerity

It's better if you don't have to though, you feel less dirty inside

Edited to add:
That came out a bit wrong, what I meant to say was fake sincerity comes in very handy but it's better if you don't have to fake it. I'll shut up now

Edited April 6, 2009 by HeavyJay

[molan]

We used to play 'Stand by your Man' in one band I was in.

It was so boring I lay on my back on the floor & pretended to be asleep at one gig. It went down really well with the audience & I then got saddled with having to do it at each gig, whaever the state of the floor etc. - that taught me a lesson or two. . .

[bumnote]

[quote name='OldGit' post='455517' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:52 PM']There's always something in every tune that you can work on to help you improve yourself as a player.

And once you've learned to fake sincerity you have it made as a covers artists ....
[/quote]

+1

I had 1 year playing with a country band, which I did for money, and also some years ago playing waltzes and quicksteps when Id rather have been doing Yes and Deep purple. In both cases I improved as a player more than I would have done playing what I wanted to do.

Also, if you dont look as if you are enjoying yourself, sure as hell the audience wont.

[OldGit]

[quote name='bumnote' post='455611' date='Apr 6 2009, 04:07 PM']+1

I had 1 year playing with a country band, which I did for money, and also some years ago playing waltzes and quicksteps when Id rather have been doing Yes and Deep purple. In both cases I improved as a player more than I would have done playing what I wanted to do.

Also, if you dont look as if you are enjoying yourself, sure as hell the audience wont.[/quote]

During Stand by your Man I try to work out why [url="http://www.last.fm/music/Lyle+Lovett/_/Stand+By+Your+Man"]Lyle Lovett [/url] covered it ... What with Lyle being a guy, and all ...

Edited April 6, 2009 by OldGit

[bumnote]

[quote name='OldGit' post='455627' date='Apr 6 2009, 04:20 PM']During Stand by your Man I try to work out why [url="http://www.last.fm/music/Lyle+Lovett/_/Stand+By+Your+Man"]Lyle Lovett [/url] covered it ... What with Lyle being a guy, and all ...[/quote]


This was probably done in my drinking pints of special brew phase

[Shonks]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='454106' date='Apr 4 2009, 02:20 PM']I'm currently toying with the idea of setting up a covers band.

I currently play in a 5 piece originals band, which I love. However, the constant "pay to play" shenanigans of London venues and the lack of non-friend crown does grate occasionaly.

I've always had a lot of respect for you weekend-warrior covers guys, and I think it looks like a lot of fun. I also think it will stretch me musically.

What I don't want to do however, is join an existing band. I kinda like the challenge and idea of setting something up from scratch. I have a few buddies who are interested in forming this, but like me have never palyed in a covers band. I'm thinking of making it a criteria to join - you must have no experience of playing in a covers band!

The issue is, with my current band, we only play venues with a PA and backline. All I do is show up with a bass at a certain time and play. I don't have the first clue as to what's required equipment wise, how much do you charge, getting gigs, likely problems, how long a set is needed, how much it would cost to set up from scratch etc.

Given that I know a lot of you guys have been gigging in covers acts since the dinosaurs roamed the earth, I was wondering if anyone could offfer any advice/info on the above?

If you were to set up a band from scratch now, how would you go about it?


Apologies if this has been covered before, or if its in the wiki (I haven't checked as BassFerret told me not to).[/quote]
I wouldn't.......dont!!

[Prosebass]

[quote name='Shonks' post='464154' date='Apr 16 2009, 05:14 PM']I wouldn't.......dont!! [/quote]

+1 to that...

never got cover / tribute bands.....

[pricechris10]

If I were you, I would concentrate on the originals band.
Bands who do covers can be fun, especially if you put an original twist on the songs you are covering, but at the end of the day you'll pick a set list which is almost identical to the next cover band's. That's just the way it is!

Happy Jack's signature features an uncover band, maybe that's the way forward!

[OldGit]

So BBC, what did you decide after all the advice?

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='OldGit' post='464291' date='Apr 16 2009, 07:05 PM']So BBC, what did you decide after all the advice?[/quote]


I think it will probably happen, but will be a long process!

I'm confident we could put together a decent set, get gigs, and have fun. My biggest concerns are the investment in a PA and finding time.


I will keep this thread updated as and when.

I feel that we will probably take it slightly less seriously than some of you and make little or no money. But I'm happy with that.

[OldGit]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='464299' date='Apr 16 2009, 07:11 PM']I think it will probably happen, but will be a long process!

I'm confident we could put together a decent set, get gigs, and have fun. My biggest concerns are the investment in a PA and finding time.


I will keep this thread updated as and when.

I feel that we will probably take it slightly less seriously than some of you and make little or no money. But I'm happy with that.[/quote]

Cool

You could rent a PA if you can get enough to cover the costs.

[Jase]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='464299' date='Apr 16 2009, 07:11 PM']I think it will probably happen, but will be a long process!

I'm confident we could put together a decent set, get gigs, and have fun. My biggest concerns are the investment in a PA and finding time.


I will keep this thread updated as and when.

I feel that we will probably take it slightly less seriously than some of you and make little or no money. But I'm happy with that.[/quote]

Serious or not, there's very little money either way. Good luck, show us your set list when you decide!

[pricechris10]

Best of luck! Have fun!

[blamelouis]

Any updates ?

[lowdown]

[quote name='blamelouis' post='513870' date='Jun 15 2009, 09:38 AM']Any updates ?[/quote]

The band has been and gone.
But they are getting back together at the end of the year for a reunion tour.


Garry

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='crez5150' post='454170' date='Apr 4 2009, 03:32 PM']Don't do weddings/corporate for less than £1500..... I mean it...... Don't use agents as they are sh*te.... and never get you work that you want at the money you want....[/quote]

Sorry but i just dont agree with that.

Maybe thats your experience but not mine or most people i know doing this.

If you want to get on the Social club/holiday camp circuit (as i said, IF) you have to use agents 99%.

And if you think you can start out turning weddings/corporates down that are paying less than £1500 then you will loose a lot of money that bands like mine will snap up.
I know of two bands gigging full time for the past few years, both working for agents and getting paid well but with things the way they are at the moment bookings are going down in favour of bands that charge less.


Agents take money for doing nothing as we all know but some do a lot less than others. The Agents will get you as much work as they can, after all the agents make money if you do but if the gigs aren't there they cant get them. Yes, you can do it all on your own but thats not to say you should not use agents.
One agency we work for are very good. They even supply floor plans, get in plans, how many steps if there are any etc if they can. They try and make the bands experience as smooth as possible. Not all(or many) do that.

All im my experience of course.

Edited June 15, 2009 by dave_bass5

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='513887' date='Jun 15 2009, 09:55 AM']Sorry but i just dont agree with that.

Maybe thats your experience but not mine or most people i know doing this.

If you want to get on the Social club/holiday camp circuit (as i said, IF) you have to use agents 99%.

And if you think you can start out turning weddings/corporates down that are paying less than £1500 then you will loose a lot of money that bands like mine will snap up.
I know of two bands gigging full time for the past few years, both working for agents and getting paid well but with things the way they are at the moment bookings are going down in favour of bands that charge less.


Agents take money for doing nothing as we all know but some do a lot less than others. The Agents will get you as much work as they can, after all the agents make money if you do but if the gigs aren't there they cant get them. Yes, you can do it all on your own but thats not to say you should not use agents.
One agency we work for are very good. They even supply floor plans, get in plans, how many steps if there are any etc if they can. They try and make the bands experience as smooth as possible. Not all(or many) do that.

All im my experience of course.[/quote]

Yeh - I've got nothing really that bad to say about agents. You have to be a bit cautious - there's a tendency for them to put bands into places that are, shall we say, not entirely suitable. It's a good idea to do a quick sanity check. Certainly around these parts they have all the high paying club circuit completely sewn up, so if that's what you want to do you have zero choice.

The best bit of advice I can give about weddings is either do them or don't! It's a completely different mindset and you can't do a wedding just to "give it a try and see what happens" or because it "sounds like a laugh" or somesuch. The whole band have to be on side and appreciate the level of professionalism that will be required. You cannot arse up a wedding if you want to live

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='513895' date='Jun 15 2009, 10:08 AM']Yeh - I've got nothing really that bad to say about agents. You have to be a bit cautious - there's a tendency for them to put bands into places that are, shall we say, not entirely suitable. It's a good idea to do a quick sanity check. Certainly around these parts they have all the high paying club circuit completely sewn up, so if that's what you want to do you have zero choice.

The best bit of advice I can give about weddings is either do them or don't! It's a completely different mindset and you can't do a wedding just to "give it a try and see what happens" or because it "sounds like a laugh" or somesuch. The whole band have to be on side and appreciate the level of professionalism that will be required. You cannot arse up a wedding if you want to live [/quote]

Just to be clear, im talking about REAL agents, full time function/social club ones, not pub agents. Never dealt with that type and we dont play pubs anyway.

Agree about the mindset thing. Lots of hanging around at weddings etc and playing Brown eyed girl week in week can can destroy some bands. But you get fed well, drink is normally free and get to see places you might never have bothered with or been allowed.

Again, IME.

[crez5150]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='513887' date='Jun 15 2009, 09:55 AM']Sorry but thats just rubbish IME.

Maybe thats your experience but not mine or most people i know doing this.

If you want to get on the Social club/holiday camp circuit (as i said, IF) you have to use agents 99%.

And if you think you can start out turning weddings/corporates down that are paying less than £1500 then you will loose a lot of money that bands like mione will snap up.
I know of two bands gigging full time for the lpast few years, both working for agents and getting paid well but with things the way they are at the moment bookings are going down in favour of bands that charge less.

Agents take money for doing nothing as we all know but some do a lot less than others. Yes, you can do it all on your own but thats not to say you should not use agents.
One agency we work for are very good. They even supply floor plans, get in plans, how many steps if there are any etc if they can. They try and make the bands experience as smooth as possible. Not all(or many) do that.

All im my experience of course.[/quote]



Sorry Davebass but I have to disagree.

I've said this time and time and time again.... but I think too many bands undersell themselves and don't look at the bigger picture and go out for too little money. If you think that you'll only get £1000 for a gig then that's fine but surely all the hard work is worth more than that.

What's the point in going out for say £800..... I guess it depends on your level of commitment and professionalism to the type of band you want to be. I personally wouldn't play at a holiday/social club as I know I'm not gonna earn any more than £100 for that gig..... I've done that years ago and worked with agencies on that front and they sucked big time.... most of the clubs we played at then ditched the agents and booked us direct. You don't have to use agents.

So far this year we have turned down 9 weddings due to my outfit being above the budget of the clients.... that's fine, there is a plethora of other bands willing to do the gig for little money. At present we have about 35 weddings confirmed for this year with deposits taken and our starting price for a gig is way over £1500. I have one or two gigs this year below the £1500 mark but these are special cases or mates rates.

As for the agencies supplying information for the gig..... why do you think we charge the rates we do? It's because we simply would never turn up at a wedding at say 6.30 in the evening.... having to push our way through people while we load in a load of equipment and then make a load of noise during set up and sound check....

We have pre-event meetings with the clients, pre-event meetings with the venue and wedding planners. Everything is laid out in black and white before the gig so that everyone knows what is expected.
If your the sort of band that turn up an hour before you play at a wedding then your not acting as a professional unit.


In my experience of course.

J

[dave_bass5]

LOL, we are not professional? How so?
We turn up when the client wants us to, play what they ask, always wear suits etc and get paid. how is that not professional?

I have to partly agree and partly disagree with your first sentence.
Yes, maybe we are underselling but who puts a price on how much we are worth?
For example, you say you wont do it for less than £1500 and you do a lot of leg work, meetings etc. fine. But we dont do the leg work therefore shouldn't we charge a bit less? After all the agent will be taking the rest. Client pays the same, we earn less but do less work. To me that makes sense.


I'll not argue with your experiences and yes, your on a higher level than my (or any band i know) bands but come on, there are various levels of professionalism so please dont tell me we aren't professional.
One of my bands all do it full time, have 50+ weddings/functions a year. We are a band, we work for agencies, they do all the ground work with the clients, we dont have to.
I guess ive done about 200 weddings over the last 5 year and most have been as you describe. But most have been in rooms where there is no dance floor until after the speeches or the room needs turning around before we can load in. I cant see any way around that so yes, we turn up when we are asked and when we have access to the room. No point turning up earlier if you cant set up.

Maybe these aren't the type of gigs you are talking about and thats why i said in my experience but i wouldn't say this type of gig is uncommon on the wedding circuit.

I can see why you charge more if you are also ding all the work an Agent does, thats fine but not all bands can jump straight in at that level and that was the reason for my first post.

[crez5150]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='513957' date='Jun 15 2009, 11:01 AM']LOL, we are not professional? How so?
We turn up when the client wants us to, play what they ask, always wear suits etc and get paid. how is that not professional?

I have to partly agree and partly disagree with your first sentence.
Yes, maybe we are underselling but who puts a price on how much we are worth?
For example, you say you wont do it for less than £1500 and you do a lot of leg work, meetings etc. fine. But we dont do the leg work therefore shouldn't we charge a bit less? After all the agent will be taking the rest. Client pays the same, we earn less but do less work. To me that makes sense.


I'll not argue with your experiences and yes, your on a higher level than my (or any band i know) bands but come on, there are various levels of professionalism so please dont tell me we aren't professional.
One of my bands all do it full time, have 50+ weddings/functions a year. We are a band, we work for agencies, they do all the ground work with the clients, we dont have to.
I guess ive done about 200 weddings over the last 5 year and most have been as you describe. But most have been in rooms where there is no dance floor until after the speeches or the room needs turning around before we can load in. I cant see any way around that so yes, we turn up when we are asked and when we have access to the room. No point turning up earlier if you cant set up.

Maybe these aren't the type of gigs you are talking about and thats why i said in my experience but i wouldn't say this type of gig is uncommon on the wedding circuit.

I can see why you charge more if you are also ding all the work an Agent does, thats fine but not all bands can jump straight in at that level and that was the reason for my first post.[/quote]

Dave

Don't get me wrong.... I'm not saying your not professional...if the client want's you to turn up at a certain time to load and play in then that's the deal.... It's just that there are a lot of bands out there that don't go the extra mile... and that's why I don't use agencies as they very rarely have that face to face contact.... it's normally all done via phone or e-mail and to me, that doesn't make the grade.

Doing the legwork is part of the job I believe.... I couldn't justify letting an agent do that as I know they wouldn't obtain the detail as I would, very few of them anyway.
This goes a long way and we have had lots of recommendations from brides/grooms, other wedding suppliers because we do this and not leave it to somebody else.
Also Agents in my experience never promote a band the way they should be promoted. We have a stand at the National Wedding Show every year.... there may be one or two entertainment agencies there offering the usual rubbish of Robbie Williams clones or Cheesey 'Bogus Bros' type sh*te and they fob the public off with that rubbish.

I don't believe that we are earning anymore than any of the other pro units out there, we are at a price point at what we are worth because people are willing to pay for that level of service. There are numerous other bands out there earning more that we do. I just think that anyone offering their services as a wedding band should really look at the level of service they offer and make sure they charge accordingly.

Most gigs we turn up at around 10am in the morning to the venue, load in, soundcheck, dress the stage then clear off till required.... that's my average experience.... in the last 3 years there has only been two or three gigs where we turn up in the evening of the gig.

[dave_bass5]

Ok points taken but as i have said, we seem to be on a different circuit.

As i pointed out we cant even load in most gigs until after the speeches, if requested we would (and have done a few time) turn up earlier in the day to set up before anyone arrives. Thats fine with us (and of course we ask for more money) but thats rare for both my bands.

I also find that while we do have contact with the wedding couple before the gig, making sure everything is going to plan, first dance is still the same etc when it comes to the day its normally the venue (or staff) that screws things up.

I agree that the agents dont ask the sort of questions we would but we also find that a lot of the wedding couples dont have a clue about logistics either.

I guess for us its make SOME money or sit at home. Personally i would rather make £200-£250 for whats probably less than 12 hours work than to turn it down. A few of our weddings have forced us ot drop our prices as the couple cant afford a band and are thinking about a "overpriced" DJ.

We aren't running the band as a business (my main band), just a money maker so we dont turn gigs down based on the price being a bit low, but than we dont go below social club prices for a function/wedding. We do have some pride ;-)

[whynot]

Timeless debate this one.
So my band goes out for 2 to 3k per gig.
There are 9 of us but I don't get (or expect) a 9th of the money.
The PA/lighing guys may arrive at the venue say 3pm, probably placing my bass cab on stage as well in most cases. I'll turn up when the band are due to get dinner, maybe 8pm. Takes me 2 minutes to place my amp, tune and so on. When we finish I'm probably in my car within 20 minutes. The Tech guys could be there another couple of hours packing up.
The agency deal with the clients. For weddings they can be a pain in the arse with the brides mother phoning 11pm in the evening wanting to talk about a change to next weeks opening dance etc.
If I were doing all of the above plus chasing the gigs I would expect a 9th or even more if I were running the show, but I'm happy with the set up.
Would always be nice to get paid more but then we may be in the 3k+ bracket and the 9 gigs we have this June would probably be down to 2 or 3.