Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 'Honk' is not at all subjective. It's onomatopoeic, a sound as of the cry of a wild goose. A car 'honking' its horn has this same sound, as does a saxophone. It's easy enough to recognise; just watch and see how many wild geese are attracted or repulsed by the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 47 minutes ago, BreadBin said: And so the subjectivity is proven. 👍 But so what? How else do you explain what its sounds like to someone who hasn't got a Fourier analyser and the knowledge to use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said: But so what? How else do you explain what its sounds like to someone who hasn't got a Fourier analyser and the knowledge to use it? Go on; you're having a laff, Shirley..? Who doesn't have a Fourier analyser and associated Knowledge these days, eh..? Wake up, lad; it's the 21st Century now, remember..? ... Edited October 26, 2020 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) - Edited March 9, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreadBin Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said: But so what? How else do you explain what its sounds like to someone who hasn't got a Fourier analyser and the knowledge to use it? By using the frequencies in the chart shown earlier? @Dood has just proven that using subjective terms can easily lead to misunderstanding, which is the point I am trying to make. Even the chart of subjective terms refers to the frequency in hertz, I get the impression that you are just being deliberately obtuse. We can't even get a consensus in this thread despite having a chart to cross reference against, yet there is a perfectly acceptable and universally recognised scale to refer to which you seem unreasonably averse to using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, BreadBin said: By using the frequencies in the chart shown earlier? @Dood has just proven that using subjective terms can easily lead to misunderstanding... ... whereas using frequencies, one is easily led into incomprehension. It depends to a great extent, I'd say, on both context and one's interlocuter. Nothing's been 'proven'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 hour ago, BreadBin said: We can't even get a consensus in this thread As OP, I'd like to say that the question I asked has been answered to my satisfaction. If you are unhappy, I can only apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 hour ago, BreadBin said: By using the frequencies in the chart shown earlier? @Dood has just proven that using subjective terms can easily lead to misunderstanding, which is the point I am trying to make. Even the chart of subjective terms refers to the frequency in hertz, I get the impression that you are just being deliberately obtuse. We can't even get a consensus in this thread despite having a chart to cross reference against, yet there is a perfectly acceptable and universally recognised scale to refer to which you seem unreasonably averse to using. No I have no averseness to using Hertz, but I applaud the use of subjective explanations to help people understand what that means in the real world - after all the aim of the diagram is to relate real world instruments and perceptions to objective frequency bands. I'm just befuddled by the suggestion that the use of a subjective approach in order to aid understanding and make the subject accessible is wrong by default. The Beaufort scale, Mohs hardness scale, most market research and a large part of medical research into areas like pain, physical disability and mental health all depend on subjective scales and there is a huge literature on how effective such approaches can be and where they fall down. All that's missing here, I feel, is the research to validate the subjective descriptions. Perhaps you could give people a vocabulary to choose from (ordered randomly) then play them (randomly ordered) pieces of music and individual sounds and ask them to choose the word that applies to each. Done well and carefully controlled, this would give an objective idea of what subjective terms people associate naturally with different frequencies. It's worth noting that colour descriptions have a strong cultural bias (some rainforest people make no strong differentiation between 'blue and green'. Newton's 'blue and indigo' were closer to what we call cyan and blue) so essentially they are learnt even though we tend to think red and blue (for example) are pretty objective concepts. I suspect it would be much easier to 'train' your ear to associate a given frequency band with a mnemonic like 'honk' than directly with a range of frequencies, the relation between mnemonic and frequency can then be learned to facilitate the use of things like graphic equalisers and parametric equalisers. In fact, I'm pretty sure that this is the way it works already - we don't instinctively recognise 'honk'* but we develop an understanding of it by listening to others use words describe sounds. *Actually a poor choice because I think true 'honk' suggests a mid-range sound that varies in harmonic content, dynamics and maybe even base frequency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 So, it's all a bit of a wild goose chase, it would seem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: So, it's all a bit of a wild goose chase, it would seem. A quick gander at the chart would seem to confirm that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 minute ago, SpondonBassed said: A quick gander at the chart would seem to confirm that. Still, to reduce 'honk', a spot of compressor 'ducking' helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Dad3353 said: Still, to reduce 'honk', a spot of compressor 'ducking' helps. You're talking about quack now, you know that don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 minute ago, SpondonBassed said: You're talking about quack now, you know that don't you? How dare you..! My feathers are ruffled..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Dad3353 said: How dare you..! My feathers are ruffled..! There's no need to go calling fowl play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said: There's no need to go calling fowl play. Chic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Dad3353 said: How dare you..! My feathers are ruffled..! Don’t get down about it 😐 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StickyDBRmf Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 "Honk" is the sound of all youse bass players going on about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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