The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread

[dave_bass5]

17 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

I think the thing to remember about having non custom iems reshelled is that the components don't necessarily dictate the sound. They may well limit the quality of sound and reliability but the person / persons doing the reshelling, if competent, will be able to tune the finished product so it gives a pleasing sound. KZ's use industry standard balanced armature drivers from Knowles (as used in many of the high end iems) whereas mee use Chinese parts. If I was spending £250 for the reshelling and £50 for ear impressions, I'd be reluctant to use cheaper Chinese parts in the finished product. 

 

My personal experience of KZ10 's is far from them being harsh or flat sounding. They have an inherently scooped sound with heaps of low end headroom due to the use of dual dynamic drivers. I'd liken them to the kind of "boom and sparkle" sound you get from the low midrange stereo offerings from Bose or B&W. I guess that's where sound becomes really subjective though. 

Don't they all come from China anyway?

i didn't mean to infer the KZ’s were flat as such, just that playing piano through them i felt there was something missing compared to some of the others i tried. Maybe the slight dip in the mids were why I felt them sounding harsh. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by dave_bass5

[mrtcat]

2 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Don't they all come from China anyway?

Knowles are an American manufacturer and their drivers are the industry standard for hearing aids around the world.

[dave_bass5]

6 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

Knowles are an American manufacturer and their drivers are the industry standard for hearing aids around the world.

Ah right. 

Ok, but sorry to labour the point, I like what i hear no matter where it comes from (and we have no way of knowing where MEE get their drivers i suppose, could be the same?). As you say, they supply all round the world, inc china. 

 

Anyway, it’s all good to know. I didnt like the MEE 4 driver option either so maybe 3 is just the sweet spot. 

 

[EBS_freak]

13 hours ago, mrtcat said:

Knowles are an American manufacturer and their drivers are the industry standard for hearing aids around the world.

And don’t forget Sonion and Bellsing. Most balanced armature based IEMs are going to be made up from one or the others (or a combination of)

Edited January 9, 2023 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

6 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Ah right. 

Ok, but sorry to labour the point, I like what i hear no matter where it comes from (and we have no way of knowing where MEE get their drivers i suppose, could be the same?). As you say, they supply all round the world, inc china. 

 

Anyway, it’s all good to know. I didnt like the MEE 4 driver option either so maybe 3 is just the sweet spot. 

 

The component prices of BAs tend not to be too high. The cost associated with manufacture was historically down the the labour intensive custom shells that were hand poured. With 3D printing, the labour intensity has decreased dramatically and build times have gone down incredibly.

 

However, what you are really paying for, is the the R and D in getting an IEM tuned nicely. So this means the manufacturers scope out loads of different drivers and tubes and damping to get the crossovers as good as can be. Of course, some manufacturers spec their own custom BAs to engineer their way out of the constraints of combining off the shelf drivers. Notably JHs single housed quad BA (recall its Sonion) escaped the issues of phase alignment for example - and is built specifically to their spec.

 

So in short, types/manufacturers of drivers is only a small part in making an IEM sound good (or bad).

Edited January 9, 2023 by EBS_freak

[dave_bass5]

26 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

The component prices of BAs tend not to be too high. The cost associated with manufacture was historically down the the labour intestine customer shells that were hand poured. With 3D printing, the labour intensity has decreased dramatically and build times have gone down incredibly.

 

However, what you are really paying for, is the the R and D in getting an IEM tuned nicely. So this means the manufacturers scope out loads of different drivers and tubes and damping to get the crossovers as good as can be. Of course, some manufacturers spec their own custom BAs to engineer their way out of the constraints of combining off the shelf drivers. Notably JHs single housed quad BA escaped the issues of phase alignment for example - and is built specifically to their spec.

 

So in short, types/manufacturers of drivers is only a small part in making an IEM sound good (or bad).

Sorry, what does BA mean?

Not that it’s important but it looks like MEE are based in California, at least thats what they say. So not a Chinese company by the looks of it. 

 

EDIT: Forget the BA thing, i re read your post and know what it means. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by dave_bass5

[EBS_freak]

32 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Sorry, what does BA mean?

Not that it’s important but it looks like MEE are based in California, at least thats what they say. So not a Chinese company by the looks of it. 

BA = balanced armature. Type of driver... (typically IEMs use BAs... and can use dynamic drivers (like how'd you'd think of a typical speaker))

Dont quote me... but I suspect all the manufacture of these drivers are done in China anyway. Knowles certainly has a manufacturing presence in China.

 

re: custom drivers for manufacturers, just remembered that I read something about the tweeter in the JH Sharona that was down to a unique partnership with Knowles... let me see if I can find the link.

 

EDIT: here you go - https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220502005085/en/JH-Audio-Debuts-Flagship-In-Ear-Monitor-with-Exceptional-Treble-by-Knowles’-New-Balanced-Armature-Supertweeter

 

Also - I suspect that that the mass production market will be using off the shelf drivers (I know KZ do), whereas the large custom IEM companies, such as JH as evidenced above, have some tailor made, as I said before, to engineer themselves out of some of the constraints when building multiple driver pieces.

Edited January 8, 2023 by EBS_freak

[dave_bass5]

Thanks, thats an interesting read. Seems like there is a lot involved behind the scenes. 

 

I would be very surprised if china isn’t involved in any mass manufacture these days, but I understand its how its all put together that counts. 

 

My IME’s have 2xBA and one dynamic driver. It gives me the sound i like. Ive never tried any high end ones but, these do sound good for my key’s so i have no need to get anything else unless there is a fit improvement. The one above mine had 3xBA and a dynamic driver. On paper it’s aimed more for my use, but i just felt it lacked a bit of body. I guess you just cant tell until you try them. They were only £130 so still budget as such, but thats all i need for now. 

[dave_bass5]

6 hours ago, mrtcat said:

Proper custom fit iems aren't going to be cheap however you do it. Probably the most cost effective way in is to buy decent non custom in ear monitors (UE900s or similar) and have them reshelled by a company like lugs. You are unlikely to see any change from £500

Ok. I just had a look at the UE900. Price wise i could afford them, but they look a bit big for my flat ears. I know as custom shell would help with that, but a re shell would not happen straight away. 

And impossible to get as far as i can see. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by dave_bass5

[EBS_freak]

UE900 are long since obsolete. If you were looking at a reshell from lugs anyway (with a donor set of UE900) you’d be in for around 500 - which is circa the price of Roberts triple and quad anyway…

 

If you like what you have, give lugs a shout - don’t know if they will rehouse dynamic drivers… but you know, nothing to lose by shooting an email. Circa 250 for the shells and a bit extra for ear impressions should see you under 500 total spend (especially if using your existing mees as the donor)

Edited January 9, 2023 by EBS_freak

[dave_bass5]

6 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

UE900 are long since obsolete. If you were looking at a reshell from lugs anyway (with a donor set of UE900) you’d be in for around 500 - which is circa the price of Roberts triple and quad anyway…

 

If you like what you have, give lugs a shout - don’t know if they will rehouse dynamic drivers… but you know, nothing to lose by shooting an email. Circa 250 for the shells and a bit extra for ear impressions should see you under 500 total spend (especially if using your existing mees as the donor)

Good idea, I’ll give that a go. Im not in a rush, still got to get the ear side sorted first anyway. 

[acidbass]

On 09/01/2023 at 01:46, EBS_freak said:

If you were looking at a reshell from lugs anyway (with a donor set of UE900) you’d be in for around 500 - which is circa the price of Roberts triple and quad anyway…

I had a set of the Lugs quad driver moulds and they just sounded like mush from the get go. The seal was good but no definition whatsoever in the sound, there was never enough treble and consequently it adversely affected my impression of vocals and other instruments. They were my primary earphone between UE11 and JH Roxannes and I couldn't get rid of them fast enough! Just my own experience.

[Al Krow]

A little bit of feedback on my recently acquired KZ ZS10 Pro's.

The smallest supplied ear buds that came in the box seem to be fine and comfortable (and another band member has said the same), so I'll make do with those for now.

I've A/B'd the ZS10 Pro's against my "proper" i.e. over-ear decent headphones (an older Audio Technica model - ATHPro700Mk2) from the monitor output of my Zoom L8 desk with everything set flat in terms of EQ. The AT headphones had a slightly better bass response, which I was expecting, but the ZS10 Pro's had crisper more articulate high-end and mids, and the AT's felt a little muffled in comparison.

So, overall, I find myself preferring the ZS10 Pros over a pair of £200 over-ear headphones - I wasn't expecting that!

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Al Krow

[EBS_freak]

48 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

A little bit of feedback on my recently acquired KZ ZS10 Pro's.

The smallest supplied ear buds that came in the box seem to be fine and comfortable (and another band member has said the same), so I'll make do with those for now.

I've A/B'd the ZS10 Pro's against my "proper" decent headphones (an older Audio Technica model - ATHPro700Mk2) from the monitor output of my Zoom L8 desk with everything set flat in terms of EQ. The AT headphones had a slightly better bass response, which I was expecting, but the ZS10 Pro's had crisper more articulate high-end and mids, and the AT's felt a little muffled in comparison.

So, overall, I find myself preferring the ZS10 Pros over a pair of £200 headphones - I wasn't expecting that!

The detail will be down to the Balanced Armatures compared to the dynamics of the AT.

[mrtcat]

On 12/01/2023 at 02:37, acidbass said:

I had a set of the Lugs quad driver moulds and they just sounded like mush from the get go. The seal was good but no definition whatsoever in the sound, there was never enough treble and consequently it adversely affected my impression of vocals and other instruments. They were my primary earphone between UE11 and JH Roxannes and I couldn't get rid of them fast enough! Just my own experience.

I've done 6 gigs with my lugs reshelled UE6s and have to say that my experience is the opposite to yours. The clarity is noticeably better than the original ue6s and the sound is detailed and clear with a really nice balance. 

[dave_bass5]

Question about the KZ ZS10 and similar. 

There seems to be a few different brands of these, I was wondering if there is a preferred one or are they all just clones of each other?

 

I had ordered a pair of the KZ ZS10 Pro X from the KZ global store (via Aliexpress), but have just been offered a pair of the same ones but branded Yinyoo. 

 

They look identical and ive been offered them for £25, boxed and unopened.

 

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Question about the KZ ZS10 and similar. 

There seems to be a few different brands of these, I was wondering if there is a preferred one or are they all just clones of each other?

 

I had ordered a pair of the KZ ZS10 Pro X from the KZ global store (via Aliexpress), but have just been offered a pair of the same ones but branded Yinyoo. 

 

They look identical and ive been offered them for £25, boxed and unopened.

 

I think there's a fair few rebranded options of the same thing! (par for the course with Ali!)

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

I had ordered a pair of the KZ ZS10 Pro X from the KZ global store (via Aliexpress), but have just been offered a pair of the same ones but branded Yinyoo. 

 

They look identical and ive been offered them for £25, boxed and unopened.

 

Sounds good, I would get them at that. Very happy with my KZ ZS10 pros

[JPJ]

So we have a new convert to the IEM world. My newest band venture features a female lead vocal. She’s struggled to pitch in ‘live’ rehearsals and even a 300w monitor wasn’t doing it for her. Last night, she tried my cheap LD Systems ME100 transmitter with a pair of KZ10’s and it was night and day and the best shes sang since we moved from acoustic to full band rehearsals. She will be using them again at tomorrows debut gig, and its been a massive confidence boost for her just at the right time. Now if I could just convert the other three…….😎

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

I think there's a fair few rebranded options of the same thing! (par for the course with Ali!)

 

34 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Sounds good, I would get them at that. Very happy with my KZ ZS10 pros

Cheers guys. I decided to give them a go and very happy with them so far. I got them off a guy i bumped in to last night at our rehearsal stuido who has just equipped a band with them, and then realised he brought two pairs too many lol.

Not sure how different they sound compared to the non X version, but they seem to fit and feel slightly better in my ears than the non X. Not sure id say they sound better than my MEE’s, but the fact that the top end is clearer might help at gigs. 

Im using Sonicfoam SF1 Large and these seem to fit really well. 

 

I’ll see if i can do a comparison over the weekend between the two models, but for £25 im very happy. Even if i use them as a back up. 

[jimmyb625]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

So we have a new convert to the IEM world. My newest band venture features a female lead vocal. She’s struggled to pitch in ‘live’ rehearsals and even a 300w monitor wasn’t doing it for her. Last night, she tried my cheap LD Systems ME100 transmitter with a pair of KZ10’s and it was night and day and the best shes sang since we moved from acoustic to full band rehearsals. She will be using them again at tomorrows debut gig, and its been a massive confidence boost for her just at the right time. Now if I could just convert the other three…….😎

That was exactly the issue we had with our singer. Night and day difference when I managed to persuade her to try them.

[basstone]

Just received my KZ ZS10 pros, ordered from the KZ Global store on AliExpress on 7 Jan, so quite an  impressive shipping time from China. The cost was £29.34 including shipping and tax.

 

I'm really impressed with the sound and they're a clearly audible step up to all previous earbuds that I've used - good clear sound across the frequency range and way more clean bass than I've had before! They are quite a bit more bulky and heavy so only time will tell how I feel after wearing them for a whole session though. Thanks to everyone that recommended them and gave me the confidence to go with my first AliExpress order.

[dave_bass5]

Just wondering if any/how many upgrade the cable that comes with the KZ’s. 
 

I had this lying around for ages, and it’s feels so much nicer. Also doesn’t tangle like the supplied one. It also has a straight Jack which I prefer. 
It’s supposed to sound better as it’s got 16 cores but I can’t really hear that. 
I got it for my singer ages ago but she prefers the OEM one. 
 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07ZQCBYXS/ref=pe_27063361_487055811_TE_dp_1

 

[dave_bass5]

37 minutes ago, basstone said:

 

They are quite a bit more bulky and heavy so only time will tell how I feel after wearing them for a whole session though. 

This is how I felt when I tried my singers ones. 
Now I use foam tips I find them more comfortable. 

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Just wondering if any/how many upgrade the cable that comes with the KZ’s.

 

Looks a nice cable - will have to keep an eye out for something like that, it is true I spend ages untangling the cables when I first get to a gig!