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Al Krow

Helix Floor/LT/HX/Stomp Owners' Club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

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7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So circa 200 flawless gigs (well maybe not all of the playing all of the time 😁) from just two of you with the TC RH 450 - good to hear!

Yes. Obviously one persons ideal tone is anothers nightmare but I trust the TC450, it has never let me down, it weighs very little and fits in a bag great, its not delicate and I have never not been able to get a good sound for it in any given circumstance. And it has a full time tuning light on the front that the guitarist can look at to reming him of what key he is supposed to be in.

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Just now, Greg Edwards69 said:

It's for this reason my band sometimes has the odd 'Technical rehearsal" when we need to try new gear or new sounds and ideas. It does help trying these things at gig level, with our gig rigs in a band context. If everyone is in the same mindset of being listening to the actual sound and being aware of what everyone else is going you can be more critical on the actual tones everyone is producing rather than concentrating on the the song and playing the right notes.

I don't play loud at home either, but I've gotten better at dealing in usable sounds at home lately since going fully frfr. I initially bought a Headrush 112 for gigging with rather than plugging my helix into my old bass amp and cab, and I used headphones or my little Blackstar Core ID Beam set to 'flat' mode for home use. I was getting closer than with my old rig, but it still wasn't quite there.  What made the difference was getting the smaller Headrush 108 for home use and rehearsals (seriously, this little things kicks serious derrière at full band rehearsals). Tonally, the two frfr speakers are very, very similar and my results are far more consistent.  I also engage the contour switch on them at home which boosts the bass and treble and helps factor in fletcher munson loudness effect. And, playing along to tracks in via the spare speaker input also help gauge my tonal mix.

Reminds me of my fuzz quest too. I was so disappointed in the big muff PI and it's quirks that I replaced it with an MXR Bass Fuzz Deluxe which had proper dry and wet controls.  What a waste of money.  It simply didn't have enough volume in the fuzz part - you turn up the dry to maintain unity volume and the fuzz disappeared in a band mix. Ended up getting a cheap Mooer Fog fuzz which worked really well.

This is what I love about the Helix thought. If any effect doesn't sit quite right in the mix, you can add eq etc to it and mangle it into shape without having to buy extra pedals and rewire a pedalboard every gig.  Even better is the ability to tweak effect settings on the fly, with your feet, whilst you're playing! The future is now.

Great post - and I think @dave_bass5 does the same with his band in terms of technical rehearsals. It's definitely a nice thing to do if your bands are up for it and can make the time.  Given the busy lives (young families and busy jobs) some of the band members have in my two bands we tend to focus our limited rehearsal time on getting our sets tight musically in terms of song structures, vocal harmonies, and vibe and feel of the songs but you're right there is absolutely no reason in a 3 hour rehearsal not to ask bandmates to have a listen to some of the tonal aspects - however with ear plugs in and a very capable drummer in a not vast rehearsal space, nuances tend to be lost.

 

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12 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Great post - and I think @dave_bass5 does the same with his band in terms of technical rehearsals. It's definitely a nice thing to do if your bands are up for it and can make the time. .

 

Not really, we just do normal rehearsals regularly and i use that time to get used to a new device. I try and prep as much as i can at home, but with headphones it’s difficult setting patches, so im always keen to rehearse. I do learn the songs though so i have plenty of time to fiddle with knobs, while the knobs work out what they should be playing lol. 

We would never have a technical rehearsal, as I’m really the only one that cares. Until very recently i was the only one that took my own rig/gear. 

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32 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Yes. Obviously one persons ideal tone is anothers nightmare but I trust the TC450, it has never let me down, it weighs very little and fits in a bag great, its not delicate and I have never not been able to get a good sound for it in any given circumstance. And it has a full time tuning light on the front that the guitarist can look at to reming him of what key he is supposed to be in.

I thought the tuner was a great idea when i got my BH800, but i kept seeing it flash out of the corner of my eye and thinking the amp was clipping. It got really annoying after a while. 

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44 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I do learn the songs though so i have plenty of time to fiddle with knobs, while the knobs work out what they should be playing lol. 

😂😂😂

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2 hours ago, krispn said:

I’ve not been able to usage HX Edit from 2.92 -3.00.0 so can’t access the new stuff. Still working on it 🙄 each time I download the 3.00.0 version when I open the package it’s 2.92. I’ve raised it with Line 6. Im running Mac OS but haven’t updated to Big Sur as I have other stuff which won’t run until update patches are released. If anyone has HX Edit 3.0 for Mac and has successfully opened it feel Free to dm me and send me the package and I’ll try it!

Have you managed to get your Stomp updated? On the PC version, I was able to update my Stomp from 2.92 to 3.00 using the "Check for updates" button at the bottom of the HX Edit window.... which confused the carp out of me for a while as I had (wrongly!) assumed it would also update HX Edit at the same time. 

Obviously you'd need to get HX Edit updated to 3.00 as well for it to be able to control the new features and effects, but at least you'd be able to test them out directly on the Stomp while you're waiting for L6 support to resolve your issue with the HX Edit upgrade....

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4 minutes ago, stoo said:

Have you managed to get your Stomp updated? On the PC version, I was able to update my Stomp from 2.92 to 3.00 using the "Check for updates" button at the bottom of the HX Edit window.... which confused the carp out of me for a while as I had (wrongly!) assumed it would also update HX Edit at the same time. 

Obviously you'd need to get HX Edit updated to 3.00 as well for it to be able to control the new features and effects, but at least you'd be able to test them out directly on the Stomp while you're waiting for L6 support to resolve your issue with the HX Edit upgrade....

Hi Stoo

yeah the updating can be a tad unintuitive with the line 6 stuff as it would be better if every updated together but we struggle on. 
I have downloaded what L6 tells me is hx edit 3.0 but upon opening the file it’s 2.92. I have successfully updated the firmware and the hx edit is looking a tad lacking. None of the new features have appeared yet. I’m in no rush and can load my back up of 2.92 so no drama but still. As I mumble on guitar too it’s be nice to try the new Princeton as it is a fav amp (my old country band the guitarist used one- lovely amp)!
 

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19 minutes ago, stoo said:

Have you managed to get your Stomp updated? On the PC version, I was able to update my Stomp from 2.92 to 3.00 using the "Check for updates" button at the bottom of the HX Edit window.... which confused the carp out of me for a while as I had (wrongly!) assumed it would also update HX Edit at the same time. 

Obviously you'd need to get HX Edit updated to 3.00 as well for it to be able to control the new features and effects, but at least you'd be able to test them out directly on the Stomp while you're waiting for L6 support to resolve your issue with the HX Edit upgrade....

I used the same update approach and completely missed that although the HX FX unit was updated to 3 HX Edit remained on 2.92.  Thanks for posting this I'm now downloading HX Edit 3.00

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4 hours ago, krispn said:

@PatrickJ

Hi I was using my Stomp at gigs both in conjunction with my amp and direct with IEM. I also use it at home for a lot of my playing. I’ll flip between the stomp and my plug ins depending on what I want to sound like but generally the stomp gets used the most even if some of my bass amp plug ins sound equally as satisfying! The oto biscuit and subharmonic synths win on the plug in side for those type of effects for my preference but you’d expect them to be good. I digress...

This whole elitist stuff appears to stem from the absurd notion of folk, me included and maybe patient zero, encouraging folk in this instance the OP to use their gear out with their band which I feel implicated in partly from my preference to use stuff with a band even though most of my playing is at home via my rig or headphones where I can really dive down into the nuance of some thing - I love running basses into my graphic eq and looking at the sonic thumbprint of basses/pick ups, I like to swap out pick ups and tinker with the core sound of my instrument and I’ve even got a full professional route in my go to p bass where I’ve experimented with TBird pick ups reverse p and maybe even a MMStyle with split coils and series parallel wiring next... For me that’s pretty bedroom/geeky/nuance but it’ll definitely make the gig and be heard in context rather than a simply bedroom experiment.
 

Many posts and threads have been started and when asked how did those sounds work on the gig there appears to be this sense that somehow it was a personal attack to ask how the gear was sounding?  There’s been page upon page upon page written about effects and parameters and what’s your favourite this preset or that preset ad infinitum and yes as ‘young’ players or folks new to a certain effect that’s all fair and ‘useful’ to a point - for getting a starting sound to build on etc. With most effects we all, over time, acknowledge that the context and the way in which we use gear is all different especially from bedroom to gig - be it our attack, our sonic preferences to the music and types of rooms or bedrooms we’re playing them in. It’s no more elitist to ask how something sounds on a gig as it is to own a ‘lawyer’ rig and I speak as someone who owned a Dingwall Super P and Monique amp. Oh and they both sounded great on the 5 years worth of gigs I used them on if anyone is interested.

The idea that this is a form of elitism humours me (but I don’t think the OP genuinely means this) as I feel that elitism  can take many forms and to isolate the notion that players who want to use gear on a gig is elitist is again a bit absurd. Excited to hear if a pedal hits the spot live? Yes sure but elitist? Elitist is maybe not the correct way to describe ones desire to gig their gear or to hear others experience of gigging gear. It is not out of a sense of superiority that I gig gear nor is it my belief that by doing so I’m a better class of bassist. I would associate elitism with other things. Maybe the idea of pride or privilege to be associate with a particular group (the gigging bassist->subcategory who uses their gear->subcategory with a band - not that special really) being in a particular club/subset with like minded individuals where the price of admission creates a bit of a barrier to entry then maybe

Elitism of ideas or opinion where someone feels their views or opinion have a certain significance to the point of creating multiple user names/accounts to comment on and reinforce their opinions and to diffuse or derail those with opposite views. I stated a thread a while back on multiple accounts being held by a single user and the usual banter of split personality etc cropped up but no one thought to discuss the ‘elitist’ angle and that the notion of ones own self importance, to indulge in conversation with themselves,  to control the narrative on multiple fronts, actively backing up ideas and opinions while dismissing  others. To be fair now it’s straying off more into narcissism or maybe it’s a ‘social experiment’, a deeper treatise into something far more cerebral? I’d be happy to look at the subject a little deeper but as with most of these things the motivation are usually pretty basic. I’m no expert but with 20+ years working in mental health/forensic psychiatry I definitely have some opinions on it. 

TL;DR version

This debate of gigging gear versus bedroom use is one I care little for and I’ll still encourage folks to use their gear live if they ever get the chance to. If that’s not your preference then that’s grand but don’t inflate it into something it’s not. Written word on an Internet forum will never captured the nuance of a civilised conversation and more often than not lead to unnecessary bickering. 

Honestly I wasn't trying to enter the broader discussion about bedroom vs. gigging basses other than a genuine interest to see who is using a Helix is a working situation.  For me Multi-FX have always been something I've had to play around with at home for fun, and to try and different sounds and FX out as a precursor to buying the few dedicated pedals I need to playing in a band setting.  Previous Boss and Zoom units I had I always found the quality lacking when it came to playing with a band (or maybe I just didn't know how to use them properly back then) or I find the interfaces (especially Zoom) were too difficult to adjust on the fly without significant time and effort. 

With my Helix I did try using it at rehearsal a couple of times but the Filter settings I were using just got completely lost in the mix.  Then we went into lockdown and I've not had an opportunity since.  I was just curious to understand if other uses were finding the quality sufficient enough to replace their full pedal boards on live gigs.

Edited by PatrickJ

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2 hours ago, PatrickJ said:

Honestly I wasn't trying to enter the broader discussion about bedroom vs. gigging basses 

Sorry didn’t mean to acknowledge you as part of that whole post I was just letting you know my usage before continuing on the discussion 🤙🏽

I've edited the earlier post to reflect this

Edited by krispn
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45 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

I used the same update approach and completely missed that although the HX FX unit was updated to 3 HX Edit remained on 2.92.  Thanks for posting this I'm now downloading HX Edit 3.00

Aye it’s not the most intuitive but glad you’ve got it sorted. Still can’t quite figure out what’s going on with the Mac version of HX Edit 3.0 download?!?!

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48 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

With my Helix I did try using it at rehearsal a couple of times but the Filter settings I were using just got completely lost in the mix.  Then we went into lockdown and I've not had an opportunity since.  I was just curious to understand if other uses were finding the quality sufficient enough to replace their full pedal boards on live gigs.

I think the general consensus is that Helix's weak spot is how it stacks up against dedicated synth pedals and to not quite the same extent dedicated filter pedals.

As mentioned previously in relation to synth, that is in significant part due to not having a synth waveform generator on board which dedicated synth pedals such as the FI and C4 have, or indeed the Boss SY-1000 and Mooer GE300 Multifx's have - but both the latter are a fair bit more pricey than the HX Effects and rarely come up used. Helix is a synth simulator like many of the cheaper "synth" pedals e.g. the EHX Bass Mono Synth and whilst the Boss SY-1 is also synth sim, it has outrageously good polyphonic tracking and twin filters on board that give it a very good range of sounds. But you're obviously paying an extra £175 to £300 for one of the three higher end dedicated synth pedals (SY-1, C4 and FI) so you'd hope they might bring something extra to the party!

Drive, modulation (including phase, chorus, flange and delay), limiting / compression (with the advent of the Rochester comp), pitch shifting (including octave up and down), EQ, tuner are all things Helix does very well IMO. That's a big chunk of many pedal boards.

Edited by Al Krow
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1 hour ago, krispn said:

Hi Stoo

yeah the updating can be a tad unintuitive with the line 6 stuff as it would be better if every updated together but we struggle on. 
I have downloaded what L6 tells me is hx edit 3.0 but upon opening the file it’s 2.92. I have successfully updated the firmware and the hx edit is looking a tad lacking. None of the new features have appeared yet. I’m in no rush and can load my back up of 2.92 so no drama but still. As I mumble on guitar too it’s be nice to try the new Princeton as it is a fav amp (my old country band the guitarist used one- lovely amp)!

I don't have a Mac to test them on, but I've just downloaded the 2.92 and 3.00 versions of HX Edit for Mac to see if they'd unwittingly uploaded the same file twice.... HX Edit 2.92.dmg is showing up as 35,011KB on my PC and HXEdit3.00.dmg is showing as 26,651KB... so there goes that theory.

Is it possible that you've got both versions installed at once, and whatever shortcut you're launching HX Edit from is still pointing to the old one? Did you manually remove HX Edit 2.92 before installing 3.00? Might be worth a try?

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58 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

I used the same update approach and completely missed that although the HX FX unit was updated to 3 HX Edit remained on 2.92.  Thanks for posting this I'm now downloading HX Edit 3.00

One other issue I had - not sure if it's a side effect of the order I installed things in or whether I was just lucky - was that restoring Favorites didn't work for me... I could save a block's settings into the favorites list, but whenever I tried to create a new block using those favorites settings, it would fail with an error - "Failed to load favorite - Operation failed due to DSP overload. Code -8611" I'm pretty sure it wasn't a genuine DSP overload issue as it was happening even with an empty preset. I ended up doing a factory reset and restoring my presets/IRs/config backup from before the 3.00 update and it all works fine now.

Might be worth a test on yours just in case it's a problem caused by updating the hardware to 3.00 from an older version of HX Edit ...

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34 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I think the general consensus is that Helix's weak spot is how it stacks up against dedicated synth pedals and to not quite the same extent dedicated filter pedals.

As mentioned previously in relation to synth, that is in significant part due to not having a synth waveform generator on board which dedicated synth pedals such as the FI and C4 have, or indeed the Boss SY-1000 and Mooer GE300 Multifx's have - but both the latter are a fair bit more pricey than the HX Effects and rarely come up used. Helix is a synth simulator like many of the cheaper "synth" pedals e.g. the EHX Bass Mono Synth and whilst the Boss SY-1 is also synth sim, it has outrageously good polyphonic tracking and twin filters on board that give it a very good range of sounds. But you're obviously paying an extra £175 to £300 for one of the three higher end dedicated synth pedals (SY-1, C4 and FI) so you'd hope they might bring something extra to the party!

Drive, modulation (including phase, chorus, flange and delay), limiting / compression (with the advent of the Rochester comp), pitch shifting (including octave up and down), EQ, tuner are all things Helix does very well IMO. That's a big chunk of many pedal boards.

Yeah,been discussed many times.  Perhaps I just bought the wrong multi-fx since it is synths and filters I'm reaching for most these days - and I'm gassing for an OC-2 type octave

Edited by PatrickJ

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46 minutes ago, stoo said:

One other issue I had - not sure if it's a side effect of the order I installed things in or whether I was just lucky - was that restoring Favorites didn't work for me... I could save a block's settings into the favorites list, but whenever I tried to create a new block using those favorites settings, it would fail with an error - "Failed to load favorite - Operation failed due to DSP overload. Code -8611" I'm pretty sure it wasn't a genuine DSP overload issue as it was happening even with an empty preset. I ended up doing a factory reset and restoring my presets/IRs/config backup from before the 3.00 update and it all works fine now.

Might be worth a test on yours just in case it's a problem caused by updating the hardware to 3.00 from an older version of HX Edit ...

Yeah I might reinstall 2.92, try and update HX Edit then install 3.0. Seems like the logical solution. 

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2 hours ago, PatrickJ said:

Yeah,been discussed many times.  Perhaps I just bought the wrong multi-fx since it is synths and filters I'm reaching for most these days - and I'm gassing for an OC-2 type octave

Well the only multifx that would get you there with capable filter and synth would cost a whole bunch more e.g. Boss SY-1000. It does look super cool though and it would be great to have everything under one hood - can't say I've not been tempted! 

But maybe a Helix HX Effects and a Source Audio C4 in one of its loops (based on the rep of that particular pedal - I've not had the pleasure yet, but plenty have and rave about it) would seem to me to be a really good pairing and I suspect where I may well end up too (particularly if / when SA sort out the lack of display UI on their pedals).

Oh and treat yourself to an OC-5, while you're at it:  it very affordably nails the OC-2 sound, as you'll have gathered from the OC-5 thread! You can put that in your HX Effects' other loop 😊

Edited by Al Krow

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3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I think the general consensus is that Helix's weak spot is how it stacks up against dedicated synth pedals and to not quite the same extent dedicated filter pedals.

As mentioned previously in relation to synth, that is in significant part due to not having a synth waveform generator on board which dedicated synth pedals such as the FI and C4 have, or indeed the Boss SY-1000 and Mooer GE300 Multifx's have - but both the latter are a fair bit more pricey than the HX Effects and rarely come up used. Helix is a synth simulator like many of the cheaper "synth" pedals e.g. the EHX Bass Mono Synth and whilst the Boss SY-1 is also synth sim, it has outrageously good polyphonic tracking and twin filters on board that give it a very good range of sounds. But you're obviously paying an extra £175 to £300 for one of the three higher end dedicated synth pedals (SY-1, C4 and FI) so you'd hope they might bring something extra to the party!

Drive, modulation (including phase, chorus, flange and delay), limiting / compression (with the advent of the Rochester comp), pitch shifting (including octave up and down), EQ, tuner are all things Helix does very well IMO. That's a big chunk of many pedal boards.

This made me chuckle. Ive not had my Stomp for very long but playing with the with comps settled on the Rochester. I use it for drive eq and modulation, the other two pedals I have are C4 and FI. The former I really only use for the envelope filters. I have a great octave patch on the FI but like the Stomp one on a dual path with the FI on the other. 

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2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Oh and treat yourself to an OC-5, while you're at it:  it very affordably nails the OC-2 sound, as you'll have gathered from the OC-5 thread! You can put that in your HX Effects' other loop 😊

I spent lunch reading that thread and watching the demo's.  Trying to convince myself I have the Helix and don't need the OC-5. 
 

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1 hour ago, PatrickJ said:

I spent lunch reading that thread and watching the demo's.  Trying to convince myself I have the Helix and don't need the OC-5. 

Ah, just get it! And if you find you don't need it you'll be able to shift it sooner than you can say "solo'd-minus-one-octave-volume-loss" and "at least this is still cheaper than pedal renting" 😁 

The other thing Helix is absolutely pants at is as a looper. My little Lekato Looper does a pretty good job, but I've been GASing for a Boss RC-500 for a little while since they came out a couple of months ago, and now that I've just sold a very decent filter pedal that I wasn't planning to and also shifted your old BF Cab to Norway, if one comes up for a decent price on Black Friday I suspect I'm not going to be able to resist.

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11 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ah, just get it! And if you find you don't need it you'll be able to shift it sooner than you can say "solo'd-minus-one-octave-volume-loss" and "at least this is still cheaper than pedal renting" 😁 

The other thing Helix is absolutely pants at is as a looper. My little Lekato Looper does a pretty good job, but I've been GASing for a Boss RC-500 for a little while since they came out a couple of months ago, and now that I've just sold a very decent filter pedal that I wasn't planning to and also shifted your old BF Cab to Norway, if one comes up for a decent price on Black Friday I suspect I'm not going to be able to resist.

haha, actually I have to say I've got something working I kind of like on the Helix using one of the new Poly patches.

I was looking at some of the information @bassfan sent me and saw he had a Blinding Lights patch, my drummer also mentioned that song as he saw it in some Rick Beato video so thought I'd give it a listen and it sent me off, once again , on trying to get an Octavey / Synthy patch going  (seriously I should just sell my basses and buy some keys).

I do think I'll  end up giving the OC-5 a go, @Al Krow if you see one pop up on a black Friday offer let me know. 

Edited by PatrickJ
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On 23/11/2020 at 20:58, bassfan said:

Do you think that was just the 450 Barrie? I had the 450 for a while and liked it for the features but it was paired with the rs cabs, I didn’t have any issues (not really in a function band though at the time) ... I upgraded to the 750 and had the core tones set on the 3 channels as you did and again no problems at all. I didn’t find the tone was sucked out.
Both since long gone in favour of the berg amp though. 

The 450 was definitely underpowered at just 226w by anyone else’s measurements. 

The hard core, baked in, compression to artificially boost the troughs felt like it was pumping top & bottom end but sucking all those lovely mids. 

With hindsight I guess I was fooled by that compression and could have partially got around it by boosting mids but the fact that it was permanently engaged just took all the transparency and organic tone away for me. 

 

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Checked out Dr Tone this evening but didn't really rate his Synth sounds...

This guy however - much more the sort of thing I am after

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lz02CvQ42U&ab_channel=ChadCarouthers

Also this guy is using a HX FX in this video for some of his synth effects

Scott's Bass Lessons - Top 10 Synth Bass Lines (But it's not Scott!)

 

 

Edited by PatrickJ
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12 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Yes. Obviously one persons ideal tone is anothers nightmare but I trust the TC450, it has never let me down, it weighs very little and fits in a bag great, its not delicate and I have never not been able to get a good sound for it in any given circumstance. And it has a full time tuning light on the front that the guitarist can look at to reming him of what key he is supposed to be in.

I think if you’re a fan of the artificially compressed tone of the RH450 then it’s probably a solid piece of kit (apart from the knobs which are notorious for cracking). 

I just felt it was sucking the tone from my fingers and hated that excessive compression. 

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12 minutes ago, molan said:

I think if you’re a fan of the artificially compressed tone of the RH450 then it’s probably a solid piece of kit (apart from the knobs which are notorious for cracking). 

Maybe I just don't know what 'artificial compression' is, but it certainly never caused me an issue, maybe that is why I don't mind it. The knobs were bad (although the replacements they sent me haven't cracked - maybe different plastic). Certainly never had a issue with it being underpowered too, and the group is too loud anyway (although we only play pubs and clubs), which is a concern I have with the CTM. 

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