'thick/fat tone?

[Bluewine]

I have struggled with this very issue and I'm finally getting a handle on it.

First of all I'm a firm believer in tone comes from our fingers and sound comes from our basses, amps and effects.

I really think the OP is talking about thick/fat sound.

I wanted to help give my band a bigger.sound. Lately it's been working.

I've started gigging my Gibson Custom Shop 2013 made in Nashville ES-335 through 2 10s and 750 GK watts. Adding a little Chorus and Bass Octave. Very thick, very fat. And for guitar solo support over a 3 chord progression I'll even use the modulation on my TC Electronics Hall of Fame Reverb.

Blue

[Dan Dare]

10 hours ago, chris_b said:

But the point is you don't want to fill out the sound. That's not how it's done.

Listen to any record and the levels don't go up or down during solos. Quiet sections aren't quiet. The arrangement will change so that less is played but the level remains the same. No one plugs in a pedal to fill the sound out on a record, so why do it on a gig?

If the OP's sound is thin during the solos then it will be thin in the rest of the song and the racket the guitarist is making is covering it up. Sort the band's sound out (maybe add some natural authority to the bass tone) and the guitar can play or not and the band sound will be good.

I'm not talking about volume, but texture and I disagree with your assertion. A band can sound "thin" if there is little happening harmonically. The worst example is the classic guitar, bass and drums trio. When the guitar player stops playing chordally and takes a break, you have drums and one, yes one note (unless the bassist uses a lot of double stops and/or chords) playing at any one  time. Not very interesting and it's going to sound sparse, however much you "add authority" to the sound of the bass.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Dan Dare

[chris_b]

21 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

A band can sound "thin" if there is little happening harmonically. The worst example is the classic guitar, bass and drums trio. When the guitar player stops playing chordally and takes a break, you have drums and one, yes one note (unless the bassist uses a lot of double stops and/or chords) playing at any one  time. Not very interesting and it's going to sound sparse, however much you "add authority" to the sound of the bass.

Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, Ronnie Wood, Tim Bogert. Not very interesting? Seriously?

[Bluewine]

On 12/10/2017 at 10:13, musicbassman said:

Use an octaver during guitar solos?

I agree with Osiris that distortion can weaken or lose  the low frequencies seriously when playing live.

You can dial in the low end separately with the M-80 MXR distortion pedal.

Blue

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

I'm not talking about volume, but texture and I disagree with your assertion. A band can sound "thin" if there is little happening harmonically. The worst example is the classic guitar, bass and drums trio. When the guitar player stops playing chordally and takes a break, you have drums and one, yes one note (unless the bassist uses a lot of double stops and/or chords) playing at any one  time. Not very interesting and it's going to sound sparse, however much you "add authority" to the sound of the bass.

The thing to remember is a small change on bass goes a long way - simply doubling up the notes or changing the intensity of the line you're playing goes a long, long way in terms of dynamics - or introducing a root note an octave higher.

However if you're already playing flat out there's nowhere to go - so you (and especially the guitarist) need to organise the song dynamics to account for this.

A good lesson can be learned from Free - these tricks were used to great effect.

Finally fat bass sound (without effects to create it) will generally come from your fingers, a bass guitar and amp set up with those  characteristics - eg Free - Andy Fraser using an EB3 with a valve stack (Orange?). I find basses like Warwicks, Wals and Musicman create a fatter sound (to the extent you sometimes have to thin it out a little or play softer) - there's a good reason why Flea stopped using the Fender Jazz live - it was simply a thinner sound and wouldn't get that raunchy fat slightly driven sound so effective in a lot of RHCPs music. 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by drTStingray

[Bolo]

You could try playing a more sparse, held back riff to accentuate the lead bits, gives it more drama!

A preamp or eq pedal can boost your signal or tone a bit when you want.

The mighty Boss LS-2 can have a loop with clean gain boost or cut, which also works if you want to blend your clean signal with effects that eat low end, like many overdrive and distortion do.

 

If all else fails the guitar could use a looper to keep his riff going while he goes off.

 

Still get a LS-2 though!

[Marc S]

There's also the option of this - the Fishman bass power-chord pedal
I bought one on here second-hand. I've used it in a cover band I play in.
We lost our keyboard player a while back, and had some gigs already booked -  so I wanted to "fill" the sound a bit more
As others have said, this isn't necessarily the best approach / ethos, but in this particular band, the singer / guitarist mainly plays and acoustic guitar
I found the pedal worked quite well, and gave another "dimension" to the sound - of course, it can't "replace" the keys and that shouldn't be the aim
but when used at the right times, it did add something to the overall sound of a 3 piece band....
https://www.fishman.com/products/series/fx/fission-bass-powerchord-fx-pedal/

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[progben]

As others have said, it's hard to get a handle on this without hearing the band.

That said, if you're a 3 piece band and using a solo as a point of climax (see: bands like Testament who usually use the solo as an opportunity to up the tempo and introduce some crushing rhythm work), you won't really be able to get there without an additional guitar player/keys player/etc.

My band don't really have too many solo sections but they're usually used as a way to create space before the rhythm guitar/vocals punch back in. 

All depends on the music but worth asking some questions about the arrangement before you start altering your bass tone.

[Dan Dare]

16 hours ago, chris_b said:

Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, Ronnie Wood, Tim Bogert. Not very interesting? Seriously?

A classic example of solipsism, I'm afraid. To most listeners, who are not focussing solely on the bass but hearing the whole piece, a bass player, no matter how accomplished, playing on their own with a drummer and one melody instrument is not very interesting. Sorry, but that's the way it is. 

[Dan Dare]

16 hours ago, drTStingray said:

The thing to remember is a small change on bass goes a long way - simply doubling up the notes or changing the intensity of the line you're playing goes a long, long way in terms of dynamics - or introducing a root note an octave higher.

However if you're already playing flat out there's nowhere to go - so you (and especially the guitarist) need to organise the song dynamics to account for this.

A good lesson can be learned from Free - these tricks were used to great effect.

Finally fat bass sound (without effects to create it) will generally come from your fingers, a bass guitar and amp set up with those  characteristics - eg Free - Andy Fraser using an EB3 with a valve stack (Orange?). I find basses like Warwicks, Wals and Musicman create a fatter sound (to the extent you sometimes have to thin it out a little or play softer) - there's a good reason why Flea stopped using the Fender Jazz live - it was simply a thinner sound and wouldn't get that raunchy fat slightly driven sound so effective in a lot of RHCPs music. 

 

As I said, it isn't about dynamics, volume, etc. It's about harmonic texture. Bas and drums with a solo instrument is still pretty harmonically uninteresting to the average listener, who is not interested in how accomplished the bassist is.

[Elfrasho]

Bear in mind too, what you hear on stage is not necessarily what is out front, if you're all going through pa. Especially of your standing right close to your amp. 

 

I'll just repeat mostly what's already been said, boost the low mids slightly and just savour the sound of guitar/bass/drums. It's a lovely sound and I particularly like the 'holes' when the guitarist solos! 

[drTStingray]

4 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

As I said, it isn't about dynamics, volume, etc. It's about harmonic texture. Bas and drums with a solo instrument is still pretty harmonically uninteresting to the average listener, who is not interested in how accomplished the bassist is.

Well you may think this but the question asked by the OP does not have any specific answer and from my experience, dynamics and especially the lack of from guitarists/keyboardists and even saxophonists can seriously contribute to the problem - I've had several experiences where the guitarist won't play a solo for fear of stopping playing the riff - as a dynamic I went over and rocked with the guitarist - he was so loud in front of his gear that it's no wonder it would sound thin to him as he could not really hear anything else (until he stopped).

If you intend to have more harmonic content (like Yes for instance) add keyboards. If you want to have continuous rhythm guitar or guitar riffs add another guitar - however the bass will not be able to achieve this if this is the soundscape you want. 

In a band environment techniques like the drummer playing ride cymbal, the bass player playing a higher and more intense part, and the solo player creating more dynamics can raise the intensity of a solo. However if your idea of filling the sound out is to sound like Status Quo then the bass will never achieve this and you'll need more musicians or backing tracks. 

 

 

[krismpos]

Not exactly what the OP asked but I recently asked a very experienced player how to fill the sonic space when the guitarist soloes in a band without a drummer. He said that I should follow the movement of the guitar player in higher registers. Leaving intervals greater than one and a half octave or so creates a sonic void that makes the overall thing sound thin. 

[Dan Dare]

13 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Well you may think this but the question asked by the OP does not have any specific answer and from my experience, dynamics and especially the lack of from guitarists/keyboardists and even saxophonists can seriously contribute to the problem - I've had several experiences where the guitarist won't play a solo for fear of stopping playing the riff - as a dynamic I went over and rocked with the guitarist - he was so loud in front of his gear that it's no wonder it would sound thin to him as he could not really hear anything else (until he stopped).

If you intend to have more harmonic content (like Yes for instance) add keyboards. If you want to have continuous rhythm guitar or guitar riffs add another guitar - however the bass will not be able to achieve this if this is the soundscape you want. 

In a band environment techniques like the drummer playing ride cymbal, the bass player playing a higher and more intense part, and the solo player creating more dynamics can raise the intensity of a solo. However if your idea of filling the sound out is to sound like Status Quo then the bass will never achieve this and you'll need more musicians or backing tracks. 

 

 

You are making my point for me. I am suggesting adding to the harmonic content - via adding keys, brass, etc - in order to make the sound fuller and more interesting. I certainly didn't say that one ought "to sound like Status Quo". They can hardly create a harmonically interesting sound, after all, with just 2 guitars, bass and drums. It's the same every time and swiftly becomes tedious.