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YouTube Tutorials

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Tortorials, I don't think there's been much in-depth discussion on what the real value is in them, pros and cons and good vs bad tutorials.


Let me mention 2 things up front. First I'm a baby boomer growing up with not much more than the needle on a record player to learn songs. So, I'm biased.

Second I'm using the term tutorials loseley. Many of this clips are not necessarily instructional.

Anyway let's throw a few examples out there. Ad your comments, why you feel the clip is good, bad or whatever.

Blue

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I'll start.

Brass In Pocket, The Pretenders

1. https://youtu.be/llDmsnTMXeE

On a scale of 1-5, 1 being poor and 5 being very good


I'd give this lady a 4.5. Reason being, if I we're learning this song I could use the clip. First of all I think she's playing it accurately IMO and I can see how she's doing it.



2. https://youtu.be/bUgKywYgm1c

I'd give this guy a 2. The bass guitar volume level and camera angle is so poor I didn't watch the clip in it's entirety.

Blue

Edited by blue

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I wouldn't class any of those as tutorials... Useful for learning a song? Depends on the viewer, but probably. An attempt to teach viewers the song? Nope. Even the video posters are titling them as covers (i.e. just a bit of self-expression) so I think it is a little unfair to penalise them for being poor tutorials.

I have used these videos as tutorials, and found them helpful, but again, the first isn't pretending to be a tutorial; it's a cover with tabs! The second is a true tutorial, and taught me most of the song.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFOTk7nhdM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFOTk7nhdM[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_1k-66_t5Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_1k-66_t5Q[/url]

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[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1500960360' post='3341267']
Tutorials/play alongs are great. I'm all for them, good or bad. I'm not necessarily bad at picking out bass lines, it's just that as a bass player depping in various bands who keep adding new material from one gig to the next, it saves me a ton of time. I don't think you're guy in example #2 is that bad really, the sound and camera angle aren't great, but at least he can play. I've seen a lot worse! Exhibit A....



I'll also give you one that I think is 5 for 5. Not a particularly difficult song, but I couldn't quite pick out the run at 2:42 until I saw this guy play it....
[/quote]

That would be a difficult song for me, I'd definitely use it if I had to learn Changes.

Blue

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[quote name='ben4343' timestamp='1500964433' post='3341280']
I wouldn't class any of those as tutorials... Useful for learning a song? Depends on the viewer, but probably. An attempt to teach viewers the song? Nope. Even the video posters are titling them as covers (i.e. just a bit of self-expression) so I think it is a little unfair to penalise them for being poor tutorials.[/quote]

I'm not sure you read my tbread introduction.

I chose my words and definition rather carfully.

Blue

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[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1500960360' post='3341267']
... I couldn't quite pick out the run at 2:42 until I saw this guy play it....

[media]http://youtu.be/jf-eKtvZfUU[/media]
[/quote]

Bizarrely, I can't hear that run at all on this version.

http://youtu.be/J9wV2NiKllg

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When I started playing again a few years ago the chap that really helped was MarloweDK.

He plays stuff I like and does it well. Plus he seems like nice bloke.

When I need to learn a new song I try and sort it out myself, then look on You Tube to see if I'm wrong.

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[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1500969065' post='3341311']
That's the thing about Bowie's music. It constantly evolved. Is Gail Ann Dorsey's version any better than Trevor Bolder's? Of course not. Is it as good as? IMHO, yes.

[/quote]

I'm guessing you didn't actually click on my link then ...

;)

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1500950960' post='3341261']
Tortorials, I don't think there's been much in-depth discussion on what the real value is in them, pros and cons and good vs bad tutorials.


Let me mention 2 things up front. First I'm a baby boomer growing up with not much more than the needle on a record player to learn songs. So, I'm biased.

Second I'm using the term tutorials loseley. Many of this clips are not necessarily instructional.

Anyway let's throw a few examples out there. Ad your comments, why you feel the clip is good, bad or whatever.

Blue
[/quote]

I may not be alone in this. I can't get on with authority figures.

Teachers are the root cause. In my primary school my IQ was assessed and I was put into the "A" stream for special treatment. The problem was that I was a child and I was effectively segregated from my peers. Already I was isolated by virtue of being an only child living in a rural area. The only interaction I got with children of my own age was at school. When they started "hothousing" me, I was instantly labelled as the school swot and that meant I was treated with scorn by and large.

My family was on the move a lot in the sixties and seventies. It meant that I had a few changes of school. Each time this thing about me being somehow special kept biting me in the backside and ruined what should have been normal development of my social skills and the like. I did enjoy my childhood but with retrospect I got a dodgy introduction to life by not being allowed to make my own mistakes in the playground with my own age group.

In short, teachers handled my education very poorly. Not their fault I suppose given the era and given that I was something of a moving target for the education system. It was damaging none the less. As an adult you just can't learn social skills that ought to have been part of development before the age of ten. I don't suffer too much as a result. In fact it is advantageous to have an uncommon point of view in many of life's situations. It's just that old thing of hindsight making you wonder "what if it had gone differently". There is nothing to be gained by thinking that way though. In short I have only ever been able to think of social gatherings from the point of view of one who is on the outside looking in.

[b]On topic now;[/b]
YT clips, including tutorial "tasters" can be a way around it for me. It depends on the YT subscriber's delivery. You can find a good clip, learn from it and then find that to pursue aspects of that tutorial requires yet another subscription to something that is far more than is needed. This tends to be when someone wants to attract subscribers to his or her course that is not in the public domain.

That's fine. Given what I've said I won't be doing that. The vast number of people who are sharing freely means that a lot of good information is out there with no strings attached. There is an advantage to clip hopping in that I get more view points and opinions. Sometimes opinions contradict each other without either of the clip owners actually being wrong. To listen to opposing ideas like that has always helped me to a greater understanding of the subject material as a consequence. I spend time grazing, in a manner of speaking, until I've got lots of ideas then I spend time chewing the cud. I see posts in BC that demonstrate this learning behaviour in others too.

I'd have to subscribe to a course of tutorials if I was setting myself a deadline so don't think I am an advocate for home schooling or anything like that. This is a anxiety busting occupation for me and deadlines are not allowed.

Edited by SpondonBassed

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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGxjm67KFBA[/media]

I'm a big fan of Paul Wolfe's How To Play Bass stuff ...
Clearly shown and structured versions of how to get through a song...

That said I do tend to watch a few different versions of a tune just to see what other ideas people come up with...I'm not bothered about religiously playing an original note for note, just want to produce the best version I can.

Constantine Isslamow and Finbars Bass Lessons are two I watch a lot of...Constantine always seems to be almost 100% accurate and Finbar, while a bit hard to follow at times, is a great presenter.

Edited by OddBass65

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Yep I've used Paul Wolf's tutorials occasionally. He usually paces them about right though sometimes I've found him labouring over what seems to be a pretty easy part in a song only to then skim quickly over something that to me sounds tricker and ought to be given more 'air time'. Theres always the skip back button so no real harm. As others have said, Constantine's run throughs are nearly always accurate though I've not seen any actual explanations on any of the songs I've picked up from him. The first linked guy in ben4343's post (the one doing the tool cover) is a recent find for me and seemed v accurate for the song I was interested in, better yet there was a link to a site where you can download a guitarpro file of the demonstrated bassline which I find easier to work from than the onscreen tab. Interestingly I found someone else doing a run through of same song and with a proper tutorial explanation but then seemed to be putting bits in that I couldnt hear on the original recording and which were also absent from other people's run through demos!

Edited by KevB

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[quote name='OddBass65' timestamp='1500974565' post='3341362']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGxjm67KFBA[/media]

I'm a big fan of Paul Wolfe's How To Play Bass stuff ...

[/quote]

Ah yes, Musang Sally by Wilon Pickett.

More seriously, the first bass note is played at 1:18. That's a long wait for a bass tutorial to get started.

More subjectively, I absolutely hated his tone and his bass sounded slightly out of tune to me. YMMV.

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I am not sure if these count as playalongs or tutorials but the bass section of the Brazilian CIFRA Club site has some seriously easy tracks to play along to and learn. All by rote and perhaps no music education, but simple for a beginner to pick up (dependent on the tune). Example below:

https://youtu.be/mP9RoZiEMmk

They also have an app and web page.

Edited by Bobthedog

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Hell's Teeth!

You actually managed to listen to more than 30 seconds of that?

Respect!

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I think the draw back for beginners is learning and having the ability to cop and mimick the bass line. But with limited theory or knowledge of panatonic scales, I'm afraid you'll fall into the habit of being able to play songs but not understand what your playing. That actually can be the kiss of death.

Blue

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1501001113' post='3341696']
I think the draw back for beginners is learning and having the ability to cop and mimick the bass line. But with limited theory or knowledge of panatonic scales, I'm afraid you'll fall into the habit of being able to play songs but not understand what your playing. That actually can be the kiss of death.

Blue
[/quote]

Totally agree from my perspective. I spent the first two years of playing purely by rote and to be honest it became boring. My new tutor has spent the last few months blending theory and practical together and my appreciation of music and playing and wanting to play has increased dramatically.

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I'm sort of glad I learnt to play by ear before the youtube days.

Don't get me wrong, these days if I want to learn someing the 'tube is my first port of call, and it was especially useful when I finally got round to learning to slap properly.

But I also like it when I hear something brand new and I can visualise the patterns involved in playing it, even if I may not have the right key, I think that comes from the early days of learning, when I was wearing out tapes, listening to the same few seconds over and over again while working out a part.

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Many times I'll see a tube clip and someone is playing something in a position or using open strings or doing something that makes more sense than the way I was playing it. And easier too.


Blue

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[quote name='grumpyguts' timestamp='1500969919' post='3341320'] When I started playing again a few years ago the chap that really helped was MarloweDK. He plays stuff I like and does it well. Plus he seems like nice bloke. When I need to learn a new song I try and sort it out myself, then look on You Tube to see if I'm wrong. [/quote]

+1 for Thomas Risell (MarloweDK). His videos are never overly long, and he takes you through the tutorials at a fairly modest pace.... here's a good vid about 'ghost' notes: -

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8sLNh8JS08"][media]www.youtube....h?v=j8sLNh8JS08[media][/url]

Edited by SimonEdward

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My problem with Youtube tutorials (assuming they ARE tutorials and not play alongs) is that, (especially for beginners) there are very few that are not "one offs". Nothing ever comes before or after. Often the beginner browses Youtube, finds a clip that takes his/her fancy, but find that they can't move to the next step. What are needed are lessons that run chronologically...i.e. where the lessons start basic and where each builds on what went before. On forums I have come across bassists who have being playing for a week, inquiring about modes. While it's good to have a healthy appetite for learning, studying modes at this stage of the learning journey will only lead to frustration.

Granted, the more mature player will be able to dip in and out, depending on the specific thing he is working on. However for the beginner, it can be a confusing (as in..."where the hell do I start...") ocean of information.

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[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1501013744' post='3341848']
I'm sort of glad I learnt to play by ear before the youtube days.

Don't get me wrong, these days if I want to learn someing the 'tube is my first port of call, and it was especially useful when I finally got round to learning to slap properly.

But I also like it when I hear something brand new and I can visualise the patterns involved in playing it, even if I may not have the right key, I think that comes from the early days of learning, when I was wearing out tapes, listening to the same few seconds over and over again while working out a part.
[/quote]

I can still do that (play by ear) from certain YT clips as long as the featured "artist" isn't all about playing [i]TV presenters[/i] and isn't infatuated with the camera. It's also good to be able to look at the neck of the guitarist's axe as he/she plays. I used to do it in our band years ago. Even if I have tab notes, it's useful to see a clip of the piece being played too.

No-one wants to play with me now that I'm old and hairy so YT fills the gap where my band mates used to be. Like yourself, I'll hear something interesting and try to work out in my mind what neck positions etc would work before picking up a guitar to try it out.

This applies mainly to clips rather than tutorials but I consider them relevant as teaching material all the same.

Edited by SpondonBassed

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+1 for Paul Wolfe
+1 for Scott Devine
I have signed up and used them for a while.

In terms of YouTube I would call out for great mention Brian Wroten, I learned Tumbling Dice (not a Bill Wyman bass line):
https://youtu.be/rdhsfVyF1Iw

Though someone will say that this is not a tutorial but a transcription! Still very useful with the playing and the score provided.

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I'd rarely sit down not knowing a song and learn it from a tutorial, I'll only do it to sort bits I can quite get myself. I feel working out as much as I can from the recording is part of my job, really.

[quote name='ben4343' timestamp='1500964433' post='3341280']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFOTk7nhdM[/media]
[/quote]

This fellow is very good, I've learned a few bits from his videos. Good shot of the fretboard and the tab help you with the fiddly bits. I've never noticed any inaccuracies either, so this is a 5/5 for me.

Some folks do put up videos more in the line of "here's me playing my bass to a tune I like", but what the hell - they're usually easy to root out early on and it's nice to see people having fun ( 1/5 for content, 5/5 for WTF not ? :) )

I've never really had trouble finding videos to help me, it can just take a bit of a hunt.

Edited by ahpook

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As already said here, when learning material for say a dep gig I can usually find someone who has worked the part out and I can save a lot of time.

Sometimes you get some really good players that have improvised on or slightly changed the original that inspires. Like Gail on the Bowie track put up here. I'll happily nick that and where it fits, throw in my own ideas.

Good or bad for a beginner?

Overall I think its a good thing. I learnt a lot of things parrot fashion when starting out and was happy with that. I was gigging long before I even knew what all the notes were on the fret board. The theory side of things came later when I was ready and I think thats the deal for anyone who enjoys it and sticks at it. Little bits fall into place. I mean even on a basic level at some point you are going to say to yourself. That's a G on that fret with the dot. You remember that and its a start. In the meantime you can learn how to play a tune and enjoy it long before the resentment of inferior band mates and the search for tonal perfection sets in. :D

If anyone has a real passion to play then youtube is another of many readily available learning tools. I think most can tell the difference between a beginner having a go to an advanced player showing exactly whats what. If someone is posting a clip claiming to be a teacher when they are obviously not qualified is usually ridiculed. Sometimes all I can find is a complete amateur showing what I am guessing is what their tutor has taught them, but if its the right notes in the right order, and I just want them here and now, its good enough for my purposes.

I think anyone that has a natural ability and flair on any instrument will have that regardless of YT.

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1501001113' post='3341696']
I learnt a lot of things parrot fashion when starting out and was happy with that.[...]The theory side of things came later when I was ready and I think thats the deal for anyone who enjoys it and sticks at it. Little bits fall into place.
[/quote]

I was in this camp - didn't learn any real theory for quite a while after I'd started learning music by ear - then all the things I had learned made more sense, in that I could understand [i]why[/i] they were there.

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