blue Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1459886008' post='3020655'] Blue, mate, that's not about music, it's about performing. I am the same, I need that audience, that interaction, to feel good. It's that or the booze! [/quote] I'm not that good with it. I'm usually looking down at my shoes during the applause. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1459891634' post='3020696'] It should be noted that bars in Europe are probably closer to the States rather than the UK - bar bands generally play three or four hour shows over three sets. [/quote] That's close to my experience in Munich, when we played four nominally half-hour sets with nominally half-hour breaks (more like 4x40 and 20 minutes rest as it turned out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1459891210' post='3020692'] That shows the vast difference in playing in America vs the UK. Generally Pubs shut no later than 1am, with noise abatement laws shutting the music off by 11.30pm so for bands to be playing 4 hours you'd be starting before the pub was even 1/4 full. The culture of going out in the UK is vastly different to the States it seems. Similar show lengths for originals, but different procedures. Sound guys that are in house are paid by the house who also cover bar and door staff. Costs are higher, especially now with our new national living wage for over 25's. [/quote] Tell me about this national living wage for those over 25? Yeah, I think your pubs are zoned in residential districts. Our bars are zoned in business districts, there are no residents to disturb. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1459891634' post='3020696'] It should be noted that bars in Europe are probably closer to the States rather than the UK - bar bands generally play three or four hour shows over three sets. [/quote] Hi Pete, Yeah, that's getting close to the way it is over here. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1459894748' post='3020727'] Yeah, I think your pubs are zoned in residential districts. Our bars are zoned in business districts, there are no residents to disturb. Blue [/quote] Pubs are all over the place here (well, the ones that are still open anyway) and there is less differentiation between residential & business districts. The other problem we've had in recent years is a spate of new residential buildings being built close to music venues. Edited April 5, 2016 by RhysP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1459894748' post='3020727'] Tell me about this national living wage for those over 25? Yeah, I think your pubs are zoned in residential districts. Our bars are zoned in business districts, there are no residents to disturb. Blue [/quote] By law everyone in the UK over 25 earns £7.20, a large jump of 50p per hour, and now is auto-enrolled in to a workplace pension, yet more added cost to the bar/venue as they pay in and match what the employee pays in. So in the past year or so running even a small pub has become more complicated, in just an in house sense. Add to that the residential bother many venues find themselves in and you don't get a terribly healthy outlook. It is workable, the current model just needs to change/be adapted. You are correct Blue, pubs are a fixture of the community in the UK and there once was a time in Portsmouth, where I live that we had a pub on every single street corner. That's LONG gone, and just yesterday two pubs were forced to close down due to costs and unworkable regulations. Even our clubs in city centres away from residential areas are still lumbered with strict noise level regs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1459898430' post='3020758'] By law everyone in the UK over 25 earns £7.20, a large jump of 50p per hour, and now is auto-enrolled in to a workplace pension, yet more added cost to the bar/venue as they pay in and match what the employee pays in. So in the past year or so running even a small pub has become more complicated, in just an in house sense. Add to that the residential bother many venues find themselves in and you don't get a terribly healthy outlook. It is workable, the current model just needs to change/be adapted. You are correct Blue, pubs are a fixture of the community in the UK and there once was a time in Portsmouth, where I live that we had a pub on every single street corner. That's LONG gone, and just yesterday two pubs were forced to close down due to costs and unworkable regulations. Even our clubs in city centres away from residential areas are still lumbered with strict noise level regs etc. [/quote] Hey, thanks James. Sounds a little like what were trying to do over here. Well, at least the super progressive liberals like me. We want a mandatory $15.00 an hour law. There will be some collateral damage to some businesses and people , but overall it's a good thing. Thing is businesses like Wal Mart would close stores before they would start people as $15.00 an hour. Blue Edited April 5, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1459898430' post='3020758'] By law everyone in the UK over 25 earns £7.20, a large jump of 50p per hour, and now is auto-enrolled in to a workplace pension, yet more added cost to the bar/venue as they pay in and match what the employee pays in. So in the past year or so running even a small pub has become more complicated, in just an in house sense. Add to that the residential bother many venues find themselves in and you don't get a terribly healthy outlook. It is workable, the current model just needs to change/be adapted. You are correct Blue, pubs are a fixture of the community in the UK and there once was a time in Portsmouth, where I live that we had a pub on every single street corner. That's LONG gone, and just yesterday two pubs were forced to close down due to costs and unworkable regulations. Even our clubs in city centres away from residential areas are still lumbered with strict noise level regs etc. [/quote] I sense you aren't pro living wage / pension but please correct me if i am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1459899532' post='3020761'] Hey, thanks James. Sounds a little like what were trying to do over here. Well, at least the super progressive liberals like me. We want a mandatory $15.00 an hour law. There will be some collateral damage to some businesses and people , but overall it's a good thing. Thing is businesses like Wal Mart would close stores before they would start people as $15.00 an hour. Blue [/quote] No worries Blue! It is time for better wages, for work done, but it will damage certain industries for sure, and as you say, some businesses are petty and want to bend as many rules as possible. We just have to hope they can be brought to heel. [quote name='Number6' timestamp='1459899698' post='3020762'] I sense you aren't pro living wage / pension but please correct me if i am wrong. [/quote] You are indeed wrong, I'm very much pro living wage and pension, I just can see both sides. Unfortunately for struggling industries like pubs and live music, this adds another worry for them and how they will survive. Yet in more steady industries, this could not be more welcomed. I work part-time as a bass player and part-time in a supermarket, and the supermarket are more than able to increase pay and narrow pay scales for managers and non-mangement. The pension thing is most welcomed for me, I pay in via my supermarket job and can move the pension around should I ever need to, and at a lower cost of the private options I looked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1459901067' post='3020768'] No worries Blue! It is time for better wages, for work done, but it will damage certain industries for sure, and as you say, some businesses are petty and want to bend as many rules as possible. We just have to hope they can be brought to heel. You are indeed wrong, I'm very much pro living wage and pension, I just can see both sides. Unfortunately for struggling industries like pubs and live music, this adds another worry for them and how they will survive. Yet in more steady industries, this could not be more welcomed. I work part-time as a bass player and part-time in a supermarket, and the supermarket are more than able to increase pay and narrow pay scales for managers and non-mangement. The pension thing is most welcomed for me, I pay in via my supermarket job and can move the pension around should I ever need to, and at a lower cost of the private options I looked at. [/quote] My concern are the high same salaries of these executives over here compared to the workers. Why can't they live on 9 million a year as opposed to 10. I'll never lose sleep over the wealthy taking a salary cut. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 The new National Living Wage is a complete con. In the UK, if you worked for 16hrs or less a week (at the old minimum wage £6.70ph) you are entitled to certain tax breaks due to your low income. Your annual income will be less than the national taxable wage. Now that the wage is higher (£7.20ph), this puts you over the non-taxable limit which means you will now need to pay tax on your income. Which makes your net income less than it was before the new Living Wage was introduced! It's a con and a shambles. You could argue that this only negatively affects those on the lowest income. But aren't they the ones that deserve our help the most? I know many people that work exactly 16hrs a week because they have care responsibilies (kids, sick, elderly etc) and now they're being pinched even harder. Anyway, back on topic; I've discussed with the band the possibility of trying to work out some original numbers. Promising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1459931705' post='3020871'] Now that the wage is higher (£7.20ph), this puts you over the non-taxable limit which means you will now need to pay tax on your income. Which makes your net income less than it was before the new Living Wage was introduced! [/quote] Don't want to digress, but won't tax be payable only on income above that limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Oh my god, you're quite right. That'll teach me for reading angry posts on Facebook without doing any background reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1459931705' post='3020871'] The new National Living Wage is a complete con. In the UK, if you worked for 16hrs or less a week (at the old minimum wage £6.70ph) you are entitled to certain tax breaks due to your low income. Your annual income will be less than the national taxable wage. Now that the wage is higher (£7.20ph), this puts you over the non-taxable limit which means you will now need to pay tax on your income. Which makes your net income less than it was before the new Living Wage was introduced! It's a con and a shambles. You could argue that this only negatively affects those on the lowest income. But aren't they the ones that deserve our help the most? I know many people that work exactly 16hrs a week because they have care responsibilies (kids, sick, elderly etc) and now they're being pinched even harder. Anyway, back on topic; I've discussed with the band the possibility of trying to work out some original numbers. Promising! [/quote] 16 hrs a week? That's less than I do and I still earn about £4k a year UNDER my tax code which is the base tax code, think it's something like 1066L or about £10.5K a year. [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1459932388' post='3020879'] Don't want to digress, but won't tax be payable only on income above that limit? [/quote] Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1459932621' post='3020885'] ...reading angry posts on Facebook without doing any background reading. [/quote] Are you related to Mrs C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1459901067' post='3020768'] No worries Blue! It is time for better wages, for work done, but it will damage certain industries for sure, and as you say, some businesses are petty and want to bend as many rules as possible. We just have to hope they can be brought to heel. You are indeed wrong, I'm very much pro living wage and pension, I just can see both sides. Unfortunately for struggling industries like pubs and live music, this adds another worry for them and how they will survive. Yet in more steady industries, this could not be more welcomed. I work part-time as a bass player and part-time in a supermarket, and the supermarket are more than able to increase pay and narrow pay scales for managers and non-mangement. The pension thing is most welcomed for me, I pay in via my supermarket job and can move the pension around should I ever need to, and at a lower cost of the private options I looked at. [/quote] That's good. I have to say i know some Publicans that are quite wealthy too but put their earnings and old age provision over and above that of their employees. At least this in some way starts to level the playing field even if £7.20 is in no way a living wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='Number6' timestamp='1459934114' post='3020916'] That's good. I have to say i know some Publicans that are quite wealthy too but put their earnings and old age provision over and above that of their employees. At least this in some way starts to level the playing field even if £7.20 is in no way a living wage. [/quote] A fairer society is a better one. It's when things become unfair or fail to address the unfairness already there that there becomes problems. As you say £7.20 is not even close to a living wage! Tax avoidance should be the key issue we bash the government about for me. But this is going wildly off topic! As far as my previously talked about unfulfillment goes, I have just been booked to do a reading gig in May and though it's somewhat foreign to me, I'm extremely excited for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I've finally begun to realise, after 37 years of playing, that if I'm looking for fulfilment I'm not going to get it from music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1459939255' post='3021012'] I've finally begun to realise, after 37 years of playing, that if I'm looking for fulfilment I'm not going to get it from music. [/quote] Never say never. But then, if you stop looking it might find you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefbaker Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1459939255' post='3021012'] I've finally begun to realise, after 37 years of playing, that if I'm looking for fulfilment I'm not going to get it from music. [/quote] I usually get mine from tescos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='keefbaker' timestamp='1459941051' post='3021029'] I usually get mine from tescos. [/quote] Tesco Rich Shorties biscuits and a lovely cup of tea. Simple fulfilment:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefbaker Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1459943765' post='3021081'] Tesco Rich Shorties biscuits and a lovely cup of tea. Simple fulfilment:) [/quote] If you're not feeling fulfilled after tea and biscuits, I don't know what's wrong with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1459939255' post='3021012'] I've finally begun to realise, after 37 years of playing, that if I'm looking for fulfilment I'm not going to get it from music. [/quote] Interesting, for me music and gigging is the only thing I have in life. Lucky for me its very fulfilling. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Very fortunate indeed, but think of all the other experiences you're missing out on. Quite a dilemma really; focus on one thing all our lives and hopefully excel at it or aim for a broad range of interests and experiences but probably not have time to excel in any of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1459983922' post='3021593'] Very fortunate indeed, but think of all the other experiences you're missing out on. Quite a dilemma really; focus on one thing all our lives and hopefully excel at it or aim for a broad range of interests and experiences but probably not have time to excel in any of them? [/quote] I never think about things I'm missing out on. Never really occurred to me. I'm cool with where I'm at in life. I'm not sure I excel at music or playing bass. But as I said my experience is more than fulfilling. If I didn't have gigging, I be lost and depressed. Blue Edited April 6, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.