Notation software....with a difference.

[ambient]

What software could do something this, could you do it in Word ?

Only my handwriting/drawing is awful.

[attachment=213611:12400458_459438644264402_5260268599431189040_n.jpg]

[attachment=213612:pod38_guy4.jpg]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456796334' post='2992380']...
Only my handwriting/drawing is awful....
[/quote]

You're in good company, then...
Mozart ...



Beethoven ...



Chopin ...



All skills can be honed; is it maybe time for you to hone your manuscript skills now..? It's very creative, being 'hands on'; far more than having a machine do it for you.
Just sayin'.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Dad3353

[ambient]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1456797296' post='2992381']
You're in good company, then...
Mozart ...



Beethoven ...



Chopin ...



All skills can be honed; is it maybe time for you to hone your manuscript skills now..? It's very creative, being 'hands on'; far more than having a machine do it for you.
Just sayin'.
[/quote]

I'm pretty much ok with 'normal' handwritten notation, it's all the crazy lines and curves etc on the graphic notation.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456798350' post='2992382']
I'm pretty much ok with 'normal' handwritten notation, it's all the crazy lines and curves etc on the graphic notation.
[/quote]

Do as [i]they [/i]do; pencil and paper, I'd say. Just get a roll of ceiling wallpaper (is that a contradiction in terms..? ) and fill it up. In a century or so, those scrolls will be auctioned off for oodles of [insert your favourite predicted currency here ...].

Edited March 1, 2016 by Dad3353

[BassTractor]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456796334' post='2992380']
What software could do something this
[/quote]

On Gearslutz, a recent thread mentioned Csound, PD and Paulstretch.
Sadly, I know nothing about these, as my days were 40 years ago, but you could investigate those.
Good luck!

Edited March 1, 2016 by BassTractor

[ambient]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1456829351' post='2992556']


On Gearslutz, a recent thread mentioned Csound, PD and Paulstretch.
Sadly, I know nothing about these, as my days were 40 years ago, but you could investigate those.
Good luck!
[/quote]

Thanks 😊.

It's for part of my MMus portfolio, so needs to be neat 😊.

[keefbaker]

Obviously for standard notation Sibelius is king, there are others like the freeware MuseScore. But you're doing kind of John-Cage-y stuff there. You're probably best knocking something up on a sibelius demo and then screenprinting and importing into an image manipulation program like GIMP/Photoshop.

If you're not careful I'll pull out my "music for 4 washing machines" score.

[TimR]

Just use photoshop/gimp etc.

There are plenty of Notation fonts around to download. I'm sure an early version of Sibelius installed one on my machine.

http://www.fontspace.com/category/notation

.

Edited March 1, 2016 by TimR

[BigRedX]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456796334' post='2992380']
What software could do something this, could you do it in Word ?

Only my handwriting/drawing is awful.
[/quote]

Word is essentially a glorified type-writer. While it might be possible to do, you'd probably spend as long (if not longer) trying to learn how to achieve this as you would actually doing it.

You need to right tools to do the job properly but you also need the right skills to use them (a bit like music really). If I was looking to create something like this I'd probably be looking at a combination of Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign as well as a more traditional notation program, together with a Wacom Cintiq for getting it all onto the computer in the first place, but then, I've already go the tools and the know-how to use them, so I'm not going to be taking a lot of time to learn a whole new set of skills.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about computer programs for graphics and an incorrect assumption that just owning one will automatically give you all the skills you need. No-one here would assume that owning a DAW automatically makes you an ace composer or producer, so why would graphics be any different?

Which brings me on to:

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1456799490' post='2992384']
Do as [i]they [/i]do; pencil and paper, I'd say. Just get a roll of ceiling wallpaper (is that a contradiction in terms..? ) and fill it up. In a century or so, those scrolls will be auctioned off for oodles of [insert your favourite predicted currency here ...].
[/quote]

And TBH this is still the way I'd do it. The computer is great for getting things neat and accurate, but the roughness and hand-drawn look is what makes the images you posted originally so compelling. And be creating a true "original" you also create extra value to you score should you ever become well-known enough as a composer. You can't replicate the uniqueness of the one-off original manuscript with a computer file.

Also even if I was to go with the software approach I'd still be starting with something hand drawn on paper which I would then scan in to use as a template. Again it's a question of using the right tools for the job.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456829929' post='2992564']
Thanks ��.

It's for part of my MMus portfolio, so needs to be neat ��.
[/quote]

Does it really have to be neat? I'm sure the composer(s?) of the manuscripts you posted originally would have something to say about that.

Of course it depends on what you are actually going to produce. IMO so long as what you produce is legible and understandable by the musicians who are expected to perform the music from your score, then it is neat enough.

EDIT: If I didn't already have the skills and tools to do this on the computer, I'd be investing my time an energy in improving my basic drawing and penmanship using pens and paper.

Edited March 1, 2016 by BigRedX

[dannybuoy]

This requires investing in a Windows device with pen input such as a Surface, but looks like a really natural way to interface with written music:

http://www.staffpad.net

[colgraff]

I like Musescore. I haven't tried anything this complicated but it has handled everything that I have asked of it.

[ambient]

Thanks for all your suggestions, I'll check them out.

I've got Sibelius, and use it for regular stuff, but it's not really designed for the more avant garde stuff like I'm asked to do for this assignment.

[ambient]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1456832064' post='2992596']


Word is essentially a glorified type-writer. While it might be possible to do, you'd probably spend as long (if not longer) trying to learn how to achieve this as you would actually doing it.

You need to right tools to do the job properly but you also need the right skills to use them (a bit like music really). If I was looking to create something like this I'd probably be looking at a combination of Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign as well as a more traditional notation program, together with a Wacom Cintiq for getting it all onto the computer in the first place, but then, I've already go the tools and the know-how to use them, so I'm not going to be taking a lot of time to learn a whole new set of skills.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about computer programs for graphics and an incorrect assumption that just owning one will automatically give you all the skills you need. No-one here would assume that owning a DAW automatically makes you an ace composer or producer, so why would graphics be any different?

Which brings me on to:



And TBH this is still the way I'd do it. The computer is great for getting things neat and accurate, but the roughness and hand-drawn look is what makes the images you posted originally so compelling. And be creating a true "original" you also create extra value to you score should you ever become well-known enough as a composer. You can't replicate the uniqueness of the one-off original manuscript with a computer file.

Also even if I was to go with the software approach I'd still be starting with something hand drawn on paper which I would then scan in to use as a template. Again it's a question of using the right tools for the job.



Does it really have to be neat? I'm sure the composer(s?) of the manuscripts you posted originally would have something to say about that.

Of course it depends on what you are actually going to produce. IMO so long as what you produce is legible and understandable by the musicians who are expected to perform the music from your score, then it is neat enough.

EDIT: If I didn't already have the skills and tools to do this on the computer, I'd be investing my time an energy in improving my basic drawing and penmanship using pens and paper.
[/quote]

We were looking at some Ferneyhough scores and his handwritten notes for his string quartet no 2 in a lecture today. I'm thinking of trying hand drawn stuff, maybe use pencil first and then possibly go over in ink.

Thanks for the reply 😊.

[TimR]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456840600' post='2992755']
Thanks for all your suggestions, I'll check them out.

I've got Sibelius, and use it for regular stuff, but it's not really designed for the more avant garde stuff like I'm asked to do for this assignment.
[/quote]

Assuming you're using PC. Have a look at your Character map. It should have all your fonts in it. You can just cut and paste from that into your drawing package.

Edited March 1, 2016 by TimR

[ambient]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456841768' post='2992782']


Assuming you're using PC. Have a look at your Character map. It should have all your fonts in it. You can just cut and paste from that into your drawing package.
[/quote]

I use a Mac. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I've got until mid April, but want to start on it, just for my peace of mind.

[BigRedX]

TBH I don't think there's going to be any one program that is going to be able to create what you want. The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any "standard" way of displaying non-standard musical instructions. The links that others have provided are either standard notation applications or programs for turning coded instructions into sound. Whereas AFAICS what you want is some way of easily taking your visual ideas and combining them with conventional musical notation to produce a score that can be interpreted by musicians to create a piece of music?

Also from my brief look on the internet at composers who produce scores like this it is obvious that they do so because they have a background in visual as well as musical arts and are often just as accomplished in them as they are in musical composition. If graphics and art are not your strong points (as it appears from your OP) then your are left with two choices. Either get practicing in order to develop and refine your graphical skill; or find another way of presenting your musical ideas. After all isn't that the point of the course?

[TimR]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456842035' post='2992791']


I use a Mac. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I've got until mid April, but want to start on it, just for my peace of mind.
[/quote]

The fonts are held in the Font Book. Otherwise open your word processor and look through the installed fonts. You should be able to just type the symbols into the word processor and cut and paste.

[Dad3353]

You may like to have a glance through the various (and very varied...) systems used for Dance notation, from folk, through ballet to contemporary and more..? A web search for 'dance notation' will throw up a whole host of methods used, over several centuries; have a look at some of the images. There may be some mileage in some of the graphic elements in there..?

Edited March 1, 2016 by Dad3353

[charic]

If you're just trying to do a visual without any kind of meaning I would go for something like Inkscape but it may take a little time to learn

[BigRedX]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456844579' post='2992822']
The fonts are held in the Font Book. Otherwise open your word processor and look through the installed fonts. You should be able to just type the symbols into the word processor and cut and paste.
[/quote]

People actually use Font Book?

The quickest and easiest way to all the glyphs (charters) in a font is to install the character viewer.

Apple Menu > System Preferences> Language & Text > Input Sources. Then check Keyboard and Character Viewer which will be at the top of the list above all the different language options. This will but an icon in your menu bar to the left of the time from which you can select Keyboard viewer to give a floating palette showing all the available glyphs.

[TimR]

Thought there would be a simpler way.

[ambient]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1456845838' post='2992832']
If you're just trying to do a visual without any kind of meaning I would go for something like Inkscape but it may take a little time to learn
[/quote]

It's got to have a meaning. I have to compose 2 pieces of music, but use graphic notation, text or some other none standard means of communicating it.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1456856461' post='2992955']
It's got to have a meaning. I have to compose 2 pieces of music, but use graphic notation, text or some other none standard means of communicating it.
[/quote]

Here you go, then...



Transpose up an octave for the second piece; job done.

[charic]

Just put 12 pictures of blue bars on a page and a key. Job done

[DorsetBlue]

I use the Lilypond language for creating printable scores. There are GUIs such as Frescobaldi for it, which also allows import from the MusicXML format.