Mixer question, XLR and line inputs

[Les]

Mackie 12 channel desk, but it's not. 8 XLR mic inputs and 9/10 and 11/12 are stereo line ins.

Due to a line up change we now have 4 vocalists instead of 2, which i great as I now don't have to do every harmony so don't have to compromise the odd bass line.

But we're running out of channels, we already use one line in for the mandolin and that's great but there's not enough level from a vocal mic.

If I mic the guitarist up as usual will the guitar give enough signal to be useful if I use one of the line in channels ?

or would this help ?

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XLR-PLUG-TO-1-4-MONO-SOCKET-MIC-MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-MATCHING-TRANSFORMER-NEW-/200989363286?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368"]http://www.ebay.co.u...725.m3641.l6368[/url]

any other ideas ?

ta

Les

[EBS_freak]

What you plugging in there at the moment?

[Roger2611]

Difficult to advise without knowing your exact set up, a vocal mike into a line input is always going to struggle, you could put a preamp in before the mike is plugged in but I am not convinced that will really do the job, you could consider another mini mixer with 4 xlr inputs (for example) and load the 4 vocals onto the extra mixer, you could then insert that into your main mixer via one of the stereo line in channels so effectively giving you a vocal buss (all vocals mixed to one channel, one slider would raise or lower all the vocals) you should be able to find a mini mixer for less than £50.00 on Evlibay

[Les]

nothing in the last free channel at all, trying to do this simple and faffless, will change the desk before I start lugging a mini mixer, suppose I'm just trying to find
out how to make a line input work with a mic, or as I said would the guitar give me enough usable signal ?

[bonzodog]

Those adaptors dont work IMO as jack inputs arent much use for mics and guitars. I think you will have to get another mixer unless you link in another one as already suggested. We have 2 mixers in our band as i think its always best to have a spare anyway in case of breakages

[casapete]

After being in bands where the mixer was always running with every channel in use, I went over to
always sourcing one that had enough spare channels for future changes. Also always handy to have
spare channels in case one of the others does n't work etc. May seem an unnecessary expense but well
worth it in my experience. Just sayin....

[Phil Starr]

4x vocals, what else is going into the desk? If you are putting drums in then a separate drum mixer is always good anyway as you get the drums balanced properly but then set the level them in a single channel.

If not get an active DI for one of the other instruments or look to run off a DI from one of the instrument amps, most bass amps have a line level output. You can often use the effects output if there isn't a dedicated DI out. Some vocal monitors also have a line level output.

[The Badderer]

If the guitarist uses a decent preamp and is able to get his sound the way he wants it, then there's no issue with running it into the Line In, because the preamp will boost the signal up to the right level. he could then run a line thru into his amp effects loop in and use his amp as an on stage monitor, he just needs to be aware his sound to the audience will be what comes out of the preamp not from his amp. I don't know if this is a simpler cheaper solution than buying a new desk.

The other option is you could get a standalone vocal preamp which you could then use in exactly the same way as the guitar preamp above, but it's a bit more complicated.

Also as Phil suggested above, put the mandolin into a DI (assuming you don't need to Mic the mandolin) and run that into a line in.

[Les]

The mandolin goes into a line in now and it's fine. Might surrender my bass channel and use a line in if that works ok

[The Badderer]

It makes more sense to put the bass into the line in as the guitar amp etc. is less important to getting a good sound to a bass player. you can use any decent bass preamp and you'll have a good sound to run into the line in.

[cheddatom]

yeh put your bass DI into a line in

[KevB]

Often wondered about this myself. Are the old mixer amps that you see that only have jack inputs (so you have to use a mic lead with XLR at one end and a jack on the other) wired differently internally so these are not 'line level' inputs even though they have a jack socket? I had to use one of these with last band and I honestly couldn't say i noticed any difference this way compared with using all XLR's with mics to a desk in previous bands. It's obviously become the convention to do it this way though.

[cheddatom]

yeh they're still mic inputs, even though it's a jack socket

[The Badderer]

What ever cable gets the audio signal into the system doesn't matter. Line level refers to the strength of the signal. You tend to only get a signal up to line level strength after it has passed through a gain stage e.g. preamp / mic preamp (like you get in a mixing desk). The preamps raise Mic/Instrument signals up to a stronger signal, which is called line level.

Once you have got the audio signals to a strong enough level they can then be mixed by the desk.

In the OP situation, if he just ran a cable from his bass straight into a Line In on the desk, and that channel doesn't have it's own preamp to boost the signal, then the signal from the bass is going to be about 5 times weaker than the other signals that have been boosted to line level. The faders on a mixing board don't allow you to boost a signal this significantly.

This is why the signal has to come from a preamp (in this case if he runs DI from a Bass Amp, the signal has been boosted to line level through the bass amp's Preamp), because the signal is then on the same level of strength as the other signals and can then just run into the mixing board using a simple 1/4" Jack cable. Then you can mix properly using the faders on the mixing desk.

[Zenitram]

And is there such a thing as a simple pedal or box that does nothing more than take the signal from my bass and output it at line level, with a jack output? (rather than a balanced mic level XLR output)

[Truckstop]

Why not share microphones a la The Beatles?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1434620188' post='2801197']
And is there such a thing as a simple pedal or box that does nothing more than take the signal from my bass and output it at line level, with a jack output? (rather than a balanced mic level XLR output)
[/quote]

most amps will have an effects send or pre-amp output

[Zenitram]

Thanks, but I'm specifically not asking about an amp. Well I suppose I am, but not in the sense of a large heavy black box covered in carpet or tolex.

The smallest simplest (cheapest) way to get a line level (NOT mic/XLR) from a bass into a (line) mixer.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1434621526' post='2801204']
Thanks, but I'm specifically not asking about an amp. Well I suppose I am, but not in the sense of a large heavy black box covered in carpet or tolex.

The smallest simplest (cheapest) way to get a line level (NOT mic/XLR) from a bass into a (line) mixer.
[/quote]

Behringer BDI21 sounds OK into the line inputs on my desk (from the jack output)

[CHW]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1434621526' post='2801204']
Thanks, but I'm specifically not asking about an amp. Well I suppose I am, but not in the sense of a large heavy black box covered in carpet or tolex.

The smallest simplest (cheapest) way to get a line level (NOT mic/XLR) from a bass into a (line) mixer.
[/quote]

Active DI box.

(Still a little confused as to why you're are running out of XLR inputs though... 4 vocals, bass, guitar and mandolin so far or have I missed something?)

Edited June 18, 2015 by CHW

[Zenitram]

Oh, that's not me, I just busted in to someone else's thread.

[CHW]

Oops, must pay more attention,

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1434621526' post='2801204']
Thanks, but I'm specifically not asking about an amp. Well I suppose I am, but not in the sense of a large heavy black box covered in carpet or tolex.

The smallest simplest (cheapest) way to get a line level (NOT mic/XLR) from a bass into a (line) mixer.
[/quote]

Active DI is the cheapest most simple way.

Might be worth looking at the Zoom B1ON at about £35, you could get an active DI for maybe £25 but this little baby gives you a whole lot more to play with (Amp emulation, pedal emulation, tuner, drum machine, metronome) You'll need a splitter lead if you want to feed it to your amp and the PA though.

[Les]

[quote name='CHW' timestamp='1434625454' post='2801260']
(Still a little confused as to why you're are running out of XLR inputs though... 4 vocals, bass, guitar and mandolin so far or have I missed something?)
[/quote]

Vox Vox Vox Vox Guitar Acoustic Kick Overhead Bass Mando

[Monckyman]

There is nothing wrong with going directly in to the line in socket from your bass, but it won't be very hot. You might get away with it though.
If not, you need something to bump your instrument level up to a line level,like a micro mixer.
An active di won't do, it needs power and doesn't output a line level, it outputs a mic level, which still needs a mic preamp.
The BDI will give you tone and a level bump for £30 but will need a power pack or battery.