GuitarCenter in trouuuble.

[tauzero]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1423226213' post='2682430'][b]TRUE FACT:[/b] None of these have, or will, sell very well. So hats off to them for even trying. [/quote]

But will they just abandon them, or will they try and find out what to do with them to make them sell better (other than "take out all the active bits and anything else that looks as if it was made later than 1960"?). I have previously cited the example of Harley Davidson - they had two basic families of bike based on the same engine layout they'd used since 1928. They kept with the V-twin but changed the cylinder angle, and came up with a genuinely new bike from the ground up. And then they persisted with it.

[tauzero]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1423230817' post='2682537'] I always think that slagging off Fender because they keep making the same old stuff is a bit like slagging off Heinz because they keep making Baked Beans. [/quote]

Why this strange belief that a company can only produce the same old stuff or produce new stuff? Heinz have come up with new products, after all, not just baked beans with basil or baked beans with chilli sauce or baked beans with bananas. But they still produce baked beans, which is a Good Thing.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1423236444' post='2682617']
Why this strange belief that a company can only produce the same old stuff or produce new stuff? Heinz have come up with new products, after all, not just baked beans with basil or baked beans with chilli sauce or baked beans with bananas.
[/quote]

And now change 'bass' to 'beans':

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1423215026' post='2682211']
You mean those aren't just the same old bass with different go-faster stripes on?
[/quote]

[tauzero]

Um. Yes. I think you've just re-made my point.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1423236854' post='2682630']
Um. Yes. I think you've just re-made my point.
[/quote]

My bad - I misread.

OK, Heinz come up with lots of new stuff, but how much of it sets the world alight?

They'll always be known for beans, ketchup and soup.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1423236771' post='2682626']
And now change 'bass' to 'beans':
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Baked bass with bananas..? I like fish recipes, but that's a bit too extreme, even for me..![/size][/font][/color]

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1423095495' post='2680838']
I wouldn't be surprised. I tend to think the instrument industry has grown to a size that just isn't sustainable long term. There are almost too many companies making too many things. How many tubescreamer variants does the world need? How many P basses?
[/quote]

It is an incredibly saturated market. One upside of that, though, is that it has pushed quality of cheaper brands up, while pushing the price down. You should see some of the £109 electric guitars we have. They aren't some Stagg crap, they're actually really good, and a £109 price tag doesn't do them justice.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1423237935' post='2682646']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Baked bass with bananas..? I like fish recipes, but that's a bit too extreme, even for me..![/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

Baked bass with baked beans. Duh!

[tauzero]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1423226811' post='2682445']
Same with Ford, wish they would stop pedalling out all those Focus', Fiestas and Transists
[/quote]

And when will they move on from churning out the Model T?

[xilddx]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1423183334' post='2682084']
They never have a convincing go at trying new stuff. It's always a bit half-hearted, try something a bit different (not too radical, stick an active preamp in a Jazz for example) then if it doesn't take off in six months, ditch it.
[/quote]

Erm, my only two Fenders are both active. A Japan Power Jazz, and a Squier Jag.

[M@23]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1423302634' post='2683218']


And when will they move on from churning out the Model T?
[/quote]

Not quite sure what point you're trying to make; care to elaborate?

[tauzero]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1423322704' post='2683540']
Not quite sure what point you're trying to make; care to elaborate?
[/quote]

Well, you mentioned Ford turning out the Focus, Fiesta, and Transit. Maybe you're so young that these have all been made through your entire lifetime, but I can remember the Sierra (a real innovation, not to mention pig-ugly) coming into being - and where is that now? So yes, Ford are making the Focus, but it's not something they've made since the dawn of time. Cars are a poor analogy, as bits of wood with strings on don't become completely superseded.

[tauzero]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1423311820' post='2683358']Erm, my only two Fenders are both active. A Japan Power Jazz[/quote]

That managed three or four years, '84 to '87

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1423311820' post='2683358']and a Squier Jag.[/quote]

Still going all these years after 2012.

[M@23]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1423326904' post='2683598']


Well, you mentioned Ford turning out the Focus, Fiesta, and Transit. Maybe you're so young that these have all been made through your entire lifetime, but I can remember the Sierra (a real innovation, not to mention pig-ugly) coming into being - and where is that now? So yes, Ford are making the Focus, but it's not something they've made since the dawn of time. Cars are a poor analogy, as bits of wood with strings on don't become completely superseded.
[/quote]

The Mondeo was it's successor, I think?
Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that you can't label a company 'lazy' for releasing the same products for years. Those cars are the staples of Ford in Europe and whilst they release other models, that's their bread and butter. You said it yourself, bits of wood and string don't become superseded, so why mess with a product that has worked for years?
Like Ford, Fender has produced MANY other products, but the continued popularity of a couple of models attracts the vast majority of attention. Someone, I don't recall if it was your good self, said why not put a preamp in a Jazz?! Which already happened 20 or 30 years ago. Fender have produced some crazy, weird things as times and fashions changed, but the Standard P and J remained.

[3below]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1423268741' post='2683104']
It is an incredibly saturated market. One upside of that, though, is that it has pushed quality of cheaper brands up, while pushing the price down. You should see some of the £109 electric guitars we have. They aren't some Stagg crap, they're actually really good, and a £109 price tag doesn't do them justice.
[/quote]

This is one of the issues I believe Fender (and many others) have to face up to. How hard is it to source reasonable timber, CNC machines and then apply excellent QC. Fender (and others) should be able build at lower prices, build to order and thus give the customer what they want and deliver quality. With CNC machines, custom pickguards, pickups, even body shapes etc are not a serious issue. I have several (recent model) cheapy basses, the quality certainly gives my USA / German / Luthier basses a good run for their money - 90% of the performance at 20% of the price?

Edited February 7, 2015 by 3below

[tauzero]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1423331873' post='2683675']
The Mondeo was it's successor, I think?
Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that you can't label a company 'lazy' for releasing the same products for years. Those cars are the staples of Ford in Europe and whilst they release other models, that's their bread and butter. You said it yourself, bits of wood and string don't become superseded, so why mess with a product that has worked for years?
Like Ford, Fender has produced MANY other products, but the continued popularity of a couple of models attracts the vast majority of attention. Someone, I don't recall if it was your good self, said why not put a preamp in a Jazz?! Which already happened 20 or 30 years ago. Fender have produced some crazy, weird things as times and fashions changed, but the Standard P and J remained.
[/quote]

I didn't say why not put a preamp in a Jazz, I said it had been done. They do it every now and again, then drop it.

I also said that there was no reason to assume that making new things meant you couldn't make old things. There's great enthusiasm for Ps and Js, Fender would be daft to stop making them, but there's no sign of any desire to make a long-lived third family. to spread their fanbase wider.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1423335952' post='2683721']
This is one of the issues I believe Fender (and many others) have to face up to. How hard is it to source reasonable timber, CNC machines and then apply excellent QC. Fender (and others) should be able build at lower prices, build to order and thus give the customer what they want and deliver quality. With CNC machines, custom pickguards, pickups, even body shapes etc are not a serious issue. I have several (recent model) cheapy basses, the quality certainly gives my USA / German / Luthier basses a good run for their money - 90% of the performance at 20% of the price?
[/quote]

Well, These £109 guitars I wouldn't say were 90% of the performance of a genuine Fender, but they certainly aren't the 10% that they should be, considering that they're about 10% of the price of a Fender. They're maybe more like 40%/50%, and that's not bad going! But I will say that they are that price because the range is restricted to a few models, in a few colours. But, they are well made, and they look fantastic. And when I think about getting a Fender, I sometimes just wish that this brand would make a higher-priced range to compete with big-name brands.

Perhaps you're right, and Fender are taking for granted just how easy it is to rival the quality of their operation today?

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1423331873' post='2683675']
The Mondeo was it's successor, I think?
Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that you can't label a company 'lazy' for releasing the same products for years. Those cars are the staples of Ford in Europe and whilst they release other models, that's their bread and butter. You said it yourself, bits of wood and string don't become superseded, so why mess with a product that has worked for years?
Like Ford, Fender has produced MANY other products, but the continued popularity of a couple of models attracts the vast majority of attention. Someone, I don't recall if it was your good self, said why not put a preamp in a Jazz?! Which already happened 20 or 30 years ago. Fender have produced some crazy, weird things as times and fashions changed, but the Standard P and J remained.
[/quote]

Gents - Ford, and most car brands DO release the same thing over and over again. The reason why the Fiesta and the Transit brands have stuck around so long is because they're synonymous with those types of vehicles. A Focus is basically an updated Escort. A Mondeo is an updated Sierra. The only new vehicles to come into popularity in the last while have been MPVs/people carriers, and soft-roaders. Everything else remains as it was, although periodically updated and released under a new name.

Fender's success was built on the J Bass, P Bass, Tele, and Stratocaster. They're the recognised 4 main food-groups of Fender. Any company would meddle with that at their own peril. It's a fine line.

But Fender have and do make many other instruments. The sane thing for Fender to do, really, is to [i]stop[/i] producing other instruments that aren't J/P/T/S.

[M@23]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1423348606' post='2683893']
Fender's success was built on the J Bass, P Bass, Tele, and Stratocaster. They're the recognised 4 main food-groups of Fender. Any company would meddle with that at their own peril. It's a fine line.

But Fender have and do make many other instruments. The sane thing for Fender to do, really, is to [i]stop[/i] producing other instruments that aren't J/P/T/S.
[/quote]

OK, the car analogy was a mistake! I'm not trying to draw any comparisons between the two brands, other than what you have just said.
All I was saying was; to suggest that Fender and Gibson are lazy for relying upon a handful of core products is ridiculous.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1423350902' post='2683928']
OK, the car analogy was a mistake! I'm not trying to draw any comparisons between the two brands, other than what you have just said.
All I was saying was; to suggest that Fender and Gibson are lazy for relying upon a handful of core products is ridiculous.
[/quote]

It's not lazy because it's worked for them. What would be really crazy is if they dropped the J/P/T/S lines and started making something completely different.

Some companies push at the boundaries of what's possible. Fender and Gibson don't serve that market (anymore). They have a reputation, and they sell their instruments on that reputation. Their reputation isn't for constantly changing to stay fresh, it's for making iconic instruments.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1423348606' post='2683893']
Well, These £109 guitars I wouldn't say were 90% of the performance of a genuine Fender, but they certainly aren't the 10% that they should be, considering that they're about 10% of the price of a Fender. They're maybe more like 40%/50%, and that's not bad going! But I will say that they are that price because the range is restricted to a few models, in a few colours. But, they are well made, and they look fantastic. And when I think about getting a Fender, I sometimes just wish that this brand would make a higher-priced range to compete with big-name brands.

[/quote]

Which brand? Please PM me if you don't want to post the brand in the forum.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1423089960' post='2680759']
Staggering numbers - 28% of $7billion market tied up in Guitar Centre. If it does fall, it would take out a few manufacturers along the way. Might force Fender to trim down their range..
[/quote]
An end to all the pointless cosmetic signature series on both fender and Squier range would not be a bad thing . Will be a shame for any small business that gets dragged under through no real fault of their own making

[tauzero]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1423089960' post='2680759']
Staggering numbers - 28% of $7billion market tied up in Guitar Centre. If it does fall, it would take out a few manufacturers along the way.
[/quote]

There will be an impressive closing-down sale, which should saturate the market for a couple of years and cause another few shops and manufacturers to close down, followed by the total collapse of the music industry.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1423374088' post='2684012']
Which brand? Please PM me if you don't want to post the brand in the forum.
[/quote]

The brand is SX. They can be hard to find online, even just to find pictures of them.