nottswarwick Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 So, last night, on a whim, I didn't take my Genz rig to my gig. Instead, I used: Schertler Unico acoustic combo Schertler "Bass" sub unit. I used my P bass direct in to it, and took a DI to the PA as usual. The amp set up is for acoustic guitars and acoustic basses. It is full range like a PA system would be,. And it sounded EPIC. I mean, really really good. Studio quality, with a great low end, with proper bass fundamental. Not massively loud, but it was a revelation. In comparison with my (excellent IMHO) GB rig, it was fuller and cleaner and deeper. So what is going on there then? Clearly my cab is colouring things, and possibly rolling of the proper lows? This it's he sound I want, basically a full range studio sound in my rig. Is such a thing available? I could have used a little more volume, so the Schertler rig is not a long term option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Hmm...I've no experience with Schertler amps, but this seems to make sense from my experience with a Marshall AVT50 acoustic combo. It sounds like you're the kind of player that prefers their sound clear and clean - would that be fair to say? Acoustic amps are probably ideal for that, as they're designed to cope with a wide range of instruments - guitars, voices, violins, etc - without distorting (believe me, I've tried to overdrive one!). Bass amps are designed to cope with the bass-and-low-mid-heavy input of a bass guitar, and pumping out a lot of those frequencies through their speaker. Yes, your bass cab is very likely colouring the sound. Obviously no speaker gives a truly flat response - I think the closest you'll get to that is a studio monitor. The acoustic amp will be biased towards certain frequencies, though your sub unit is probably compensating for that. If you like that sound, I say go with it! (I don't know whether you're likely to damage any part of the setup though...but if it's set up for acoustic basses, you should be alright.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whynot Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I often thought my old Barefaced Super 12T sounded a little like going through a PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 have a read through this thread, similar questions and a lot cleverer answers than I could give....[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/210554-pa-gear-as-bass-ampcab-one-of-the-most-amazing-bass-tones-ive-heard/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/210554-pa-gear-as-bass-ampcab-one-of-the-most-amazing-bass-tones-ive-heard/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 If you like full range, then I'd just use PA amplification. That's what the public hear your bass through. IMO, unless you're playing pretty quietly, you'll need a sub and a decent 12"/15" top for pleasurable on-stage monitoring. I rehearse using a 12" driver PA wedge and it's a great sound. As a wedge I can point it at my ears too. However, with a loud gigging band, on stage, a modern 300W 12" active cab was struggling to provide what I wanted volume-wise on stage. I really did need that sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 There was a trend towards bi-amp and even tri-amp rigs in the early eighties, my old Carlsbro Stingray Probass was bi-amp capable, albeit with a separate slave amp to drive either the top or bottom end, depending which way you wanted to configure it. Trace Elliot did a similar rig that could be tri-amped by including there (in)famous powered 4x5 bright box. In fact, thinking back, this is probably where the 4x10 + 1x15 setup came from. A well set-up bi-amp rig can deliver that 'full range' clarity that you describe here. However a badly setup bi-amp rig is like a badly setup PA system - it can sound atrocious especially if the balance between top & bottom end is wrong. I can also run my current amp as either stereo, or bi-amp (or bridged mono) but I tend to just run it bridged mono as I've come to realise that I actually 'like' the sound of my standard 'off the shelf' speaker cabs and that the 'colouration' that Barefaced and others seek to avoid is, to my ears anyway, quite desirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 WIthout wanting to turn this into another Barefaced-centric thread, as there are other manufacturer options, I think you'll find the Big Baby 2 or Big Twin 2 will be the sort of thing you're looking for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The only problem with this route is that its going to end up being very expensive! You may as well stick to the rig you like and DI, then let PA deal with that for you, and have it coming through PA monitors to provide both tones! The reason the Genz is rolling off the deep lows (high pass filter), is that you really don't need that huge low end on stage...plus it also protects your speakers from huge sub bass coming through. Genz voicing on the GBE/Shuttles etc is more of tight, punchy defined low end. Much easier to use on stage IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 [quote name='Merton' timestamp='1382963737' post='2258451'] WIthout wanting to turn this into another Barefaced-centric thread, as there are other manufacturer options, I think you'll find the Big Baby 2 or Big Twin 2 will be the sort of thing you're looking for.... [/quote] I've been subjected to Shep's BigTwin T and it's basically a PA, very clean. He's local to Nottingham too and probably won't mind you having a try on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) My EAD Foundation 212 is full range...3-way with 2 12's, one 6 for mids and a tweeter for zing. The mid and tweeter can be attenuated on and off and anywhere in between. [url="http://tks.se/"]TKS [/url]look to have several pretty full range products. Also, Mike and Richard might still be supplying the fEarful 3 way cabs pre-build, you just get the speakers and load it yourself. [url="http://www.speakerbuilder.co.uk/"]http://www.speakerbuilder.co.uk/[/url] Edited October 28, 2013 by TPJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382967977' post='2258531'] (...) The reason the Genz is rolling off the deep lows (high pass filter), is that you really don't need that huge low end on stage...plus it also protects your speakers from huge sub bass coming through. Genz voicing on the GBE/Shuttles etc is more of tight, punchy defined low end. Much easier to use on stage IMO. [/quote] This! (As long as you use PA on your band) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1382967977' post='2258531'] The only problem with this route is that its going to end up being very expensive! You may as well stick to the rig you like and DI, then let PA deal with that for you, and have it coming through PA monitors to provide both tones! The reason the Genz is rolling off the deep lows (high pass filter), is that you really don't need that huge low end on stage...plus it also protects your speakers from huge sub bass coming through. Genz voicing on the GBE/Shuttles etc is more of tight, punchy defined low end. Much easier to use on stage IMO. [/quote] Agree............ you really don't want a lot of deep bass getting everywhere into mics etc ...as you'll never get rid of it..and if you have a room with a few issues then the end result could be that you can't use your backline anyway.. This is ok-ish IF the P.A has good monitoring for bass but I've seen the frustration when bass player can't use his 15's... and has to cope with monitors and we aren't even talking about the bass using subs as backline yet.. I think the OP will be ok with this approach if they don't use FOH much... And now we get why Ampeg 810's became the rig of choice Sure, there are better rigs, but the historical ground they gained back then still pays dividends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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