Clarky Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Played gig tonight - four bands, all due to soundcheck between 6-7pm. We get there at 6.10pm, no other band. As we are not headlining we are not allowed to soundcheck. An hour later, no other band. 8pm only one other band has turned up. 8.10pm the opening band finally walks in the door with no apologies to be told they should be performing on stage in 5 minutes - they promptly take 20 minutes farting about, changing batteries in effect units and tuning up. We go on stage after their set, no soundcheck having been at the venue for close to 3 hours. I cannot hear any notes on my bass, other than the lowest notes (on boomy stage) and do not have one of my greatest nights as a performer. AAaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh What happened to manners and courtesy?????????????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I have to say this is NOT uncommon these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 who knows...but i'm finding this more and more to be honest. at last practise, the band before us didn't clear out of the room until gone the time we were meant to start, and then no apology. i've seen bands 'soundcheck' and play half the songs in their set (nobody obviously told them that you don't need to do whole songs to soundcheck !!) sadly, musicians are no different to the majority of the public...they're stupid, self-centred and arrogant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 I just think that, as musicians, we all know the hard work it takes to practice, get gigs, schlep gear to venues etc - surely that should give you some sense of camaraderie with other bands on the bill? Apparently not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_u_y_* Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 That's taking the piss. You should have asked the soundguy or promotor to deduct that time from their set. Though to be honest, if the soundguy had any sense, he would have soundchecked you anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_u_y_* Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 [quote name='Clarky' post='221860' date='Jun 19 2008, 12:48 AM']I just think that, as musicians, we all know the hard work it takes to practice, get gigs, schlep gear to venues etc - surely that should give you some sense of camaraderie with other bands on the bill? Apparently not [/quote] Amen. In fact some of the most enjoyable gigs I've played are when the bands have all been friendly to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 It happens way too much, alot of the time we lend out cabs and drums and it's very rare we get a thank you. We did have a gig a few weeks back with two other bands they were so much fun we ended up staying after hours and having a table football competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnylager Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='waynepunkdude' post='221960' date='Jun 19 2008, 10:26 AM']It happens way too much, alot of the time we lend out cabs and drums and it's very rare we get a thank you.[/quote] Then they bugger off before your set. Probably nearly bedtime though and mum's taxi meter is running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Just another reason I much prefer studio work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Clarky, is the same gig as per the backdrop in your Avatar? We used to a few of their four-band nights and were often the "Headliner"even though we were completely the wrong genre for those nights (the guitarist is a good salesman!!) I know the soundies at a couple of their venues are basically good guys and can get good sound, but can get a bit like that at times. At our most regular one, I used to ask him to go without a soundcheck for us because a couple of our band members could be flaky and I didn't want to p*ss the other bands off. For some reason, he didn't like that either, which I personally couldn't understand. When I was an engineer, as I knew my rig so well, I used to love bands that were happy to go without - as long as we did a line check beforehand. With a small desk you can't give them all dedicated channels so have to start marking stuff down and hope you put it back right, and invariably so many parameters have changed by then - i.e. people in the room, louder gains etc, that your soundcheck is almost redundant anyway! Sounds like you caught him on a bad night..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 No, its a different venue but still in the Camden area. Best not say which because with luck the promoter was sufficiently impressed by us (cr@p sound notwithstanding!) that he will put us on in one of their bigger London venues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='Clarky' post='221841' date='Jun 19 2008, 12:12 AM']Played gig tonight - four bands, all due to soundcheck between 6-7pm. We get there at 6.10pm, no other band. As we are not headlining we are not allowed to soundcheck. An hour later, no other band. 8pm only one other band has turned up. 8.10pm the opening band finally walks in the door with no apologies to be told they should be performing on stage in 5 minutes - they promptly take 20 minutes farting about, changing batteries in effect units and tuning up. We go on stage after their set, no soundcheck having been at the venue for close to 3 hours. I cannot hear any notes on my bass, other than the lowest notes (on boomy stage) and do not have one of my greatest nights as a performer. AAaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh What happened to manners and courtesy??????????????????????????[/quote] should have pee'd in their guitar cases... and then had a massive punch-up... they have to learn that that slack attitude to soundchecks etc. is just NOT ON... I'd have been right in their faces the moment they showed up... In fact, you should have already been sent on stage ready to go and they should not have been allowed anywhere near it for being so late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='ste_m3' post='221856' date='Jun 19 2008, 12:39 AM']I have to say this is NOT uncommon these days.[/quote] +1 x 100 sh*t gigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Treat all other bands as the enemy. It's the only way. If they do anything at all to earn your respect, then that's great - but it's not going to happen. Other than that, just stay professional. But don't be shy about bitching to promoters / stage managers / sound engineers on your return visit to venues if they dick you around or let the other bands dick you around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) What I don't understand is that the promoters send out these detailed timetables (Band 1. S/c 6.30pm, onstage 8.40pm, Band 2 s/c 6.10pm, onstage 9.30pm etc) and - when other bands fail to meet the deadlines - take no action whatsoever - its like they expect prima donna behaviour. The promoter last night, for example, said nothing to the band that kept us all waiting the longest other than "you're onstage in 5 minutes" and appeared not to care that we had kept our part of the bargain and been kept waiting for hours. Would be nice to think he remembered that we were trustworthy and timely for future reference but I'm not so sure Edited June 19, 2008 by Clarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Its the soundman job to make sure everyone is soundchecked in time for opening. If that means doing the band that isn't headlining first then that should be what common sense dictates. With about 2 exceptions (our band soundman and the bloke who does Cafe de Paris) almost every other soundman we've worked with has been a complete arse. I don't understand it, I mean, do they teach ARSE 101 at soundman school or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 On one of the nights as per your avatar backdrop, the guy who ran the night (who may not have been the promoter) gave our band a right dressing down for not showing up for a soundcheck, so it does happen. It p*ssed me off no end for 2 reasons: 1, The keyboard player drummer and me HAD been there, it was the effing guitarist and singer who didn't show. 2, He only did this because I thought I was being helpful and tried to comment to the sound engineer that he had accidentally sent keys through the wedges and may have damaged them (we only asked for vocals). He took this to mean that we were complaining about the sound (it was unusually sh*t for him, but we'vecoped with a lot worse so weren't that bothered) but he got a bit huffy and sulky, so his mate jumped to his defence. I like to think that I am a chilled person and let stuff like that wash over me, but I will admit I was tempted to introduce his teeth to his shoes.... As to The Funk's comments, I found on these nights that it's not a good idea to treat everyone like the enemy, or else you come across as the arrogant b*****ds yourselves. As I said before, we are totally the wrong genre and I don't like a lot of the music I hear at these nights, but I always make an effort to clap at the right places during their sets and look like I'm enjoying it, even if I'm not. I often find that if bands appear distant, it may be because it is ther first gig and they are bricking it. I would also allow for the fact that a lot of these venues, especially the one in Soho, are a pain to find, get your motor near to unload, and then you have to find somewhere to park up. People turning up late, although frustrating, is all part of the game? Just my ten penneth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrunci Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='Clarky' post='221841' date='Jun 19 2008, 12:12 AM']Played gig tonight - four bands, all due to soundcheck between 6-7pm. We get there at 6.10pm, no other band. As we are not headlining we are not allowed to soundcheck. An hour later, no other band. 8pm only one other band has turned up. 8.10pm the opening band finally walks in the door with no apologies to be told they should be performing on stage in 5 minutes - they promptly take 20 minutes farting about, changing batteries in effect units and tuning up. We go on stage after their set, no soundcheck having been at the venue for close to 3 hours. I cannot hear any notes on my bass, other than the lowest notes (on boomy stage) and do not have one of my greatest nights as a performer. AAaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh What happened to manners and courtesy??????????????????????????[/quote] In these situations the best policy is to take the headliners out the back door and kick sh*t out of them, then explain to the venue that you will have to headline the show as the main band are in the hospital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_u_y_* Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) [quote name='The Funk' post='222061' date='Jun 19 2008, 12:37 PM']Treat all other bands as the enemy. It's the only way.[/quote] Sorry mate, I really disagree with you on this one. I find if you make the effort to be friendly to other bands, generally you enjoy the gig more. Some of my favourites gigs have been where there's a sense of camaraderie amongst the bands. and they'll be more likely to stay and see your set. Being nice can also extend your networking base, and they may have contacts themselves. As the saying goes, "Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down". For me, that also includes soundguys, no matter how rubbish they really are! They might actually be bothered if something messes up on stage. Edited June 19, 2008 by s_u_y_* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='222082' date='Jun 19 2008, 12:58 PM']Its the soundman job to make sure everyone is soundchecked in time for opening. If that means doing the band that isn't headlining first then that should be what common sense dictates. With about 2 exceptions (our band soundman and the bloke who does Cafe de Paris) almost every other soundman we've worked with has been a complete arse. I don't understand it, I mean, do they teach ARSE 101 at soundman school or something?[/quote] Yep! I will admit, that you do have to be able to be arsey quite often. Remember it's you (usually on your own) against several band members. I think you will find a sound man will treat you much better if you do the same to him. Some are always arsey, I admit that. I always do my best to try and find him out as soon as we get there, and talk to him in a friendly way. You might argue that this would be easier for me as a previous soundman, but that can work against me, because there's nothing worse than a muso trying to tell you your job! I think it all comes down to a blame thing. If a band is not happy with their sound, they play worse, and then lash out at the sound man (often over the mic to the audience). The sound man is often fiercely protective of his own abilities, and will be looking for things the band did to bugger it up (which is more often than you'd think) and will lash back. I've been in so many near punch-ups backstage, it's untrue. The best soundies are the ones who can rise all above that and ignore the criticism and keep a happy outlook (something I always inspired to do but failed regularly). Problem is, if they have this sort of attitude in the heat of the moment, the band will probably think they don't give a sh*t! In my experience, as a muso, you have gigs where people think you're sh*t, and gigs where people think you're a virtuoso Funkmaster (probably mostly the former in my case!). As a sound engineer, you only get noticed if you're sh*t. If you're great, the punters walk away thinking the band was amazing... Another ten penneth! Edited June 19, 2008 by Huge Hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 We did a showcase last year with 5 or 6 bands all doing 20 minutes and 10-15 minute turnarounds. No soundcheck, drum kit and bass amp supplied, all bands to turn up at 7.30 to sort out stacking and possible sharing of gear, first band on a 8.00 we were to be on at 9.30 we were very slightly late, but still the first band there and come 8.15 still the only band there so we were pretty much told to go on... The band who were supposed to be playing first arrived during our last number. Not at all happy. Luckily all the people who were coming to see us turned up early , otherwise I'd have been demanding refunds of door money all round. Next time we'll be doing what all the other bands did - arrive 10 minutes before your set is due to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Huge Hands' post='222101' date='Jun 19 2008, 01:14 PM']I always do my best to try and find [b]him[/b] out as soon as we get there, and talk to [b]him[/b] in a friendly way.[/quote] Sorry, just realised I was being horribly sexist there. There are some very good female soundies out there as well, and can be just as geeky about compression thresholds and Q settings as the rest of us.... P.S. CK you were right, although I'm defending soundies in general, that guy should have just swapped the order and checked Clarky's band, especially as they weren't first or last on. Now that was being a jobsworth for the sake of it! Edited June 19, 2008 by Huge Hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) [quote name='s_u_y_*' post='222099' date='Jun 19 2008, 01:10 PM']Sorry mate, I really disagree with you on this one. I find if you make the effort to be friendly to other bands, generally you enjoy the gig more.[/quote] I'll always be courteous and polite but I'll never for one second assume that just because I'm getting on with someone from another band they're not going to do something to f*** it all up. If they do run over or act like twats, there's no reason not to be blunt about it. It's not just the other bands that are likely to work against you. Everyone else is likely to work against you, including the stage manager, the door staff and the sound engineer. Noone does their job properly and everyone talks out of their arse. Part of gigging life is learning how to deal with all the BS and overcome it. My way is to expect everyone else to be a total d!ck: unprofessional, unhelpful, discourteous, impolite, with no sense of punctuality. I always act the opposite way at gigs. On the other hand I know if I lend someone from another band something, they will either damage it, complain about it not being right or forget to return it at the end of the night. And if I offer to do sound for their soundcheck to get things rolling 'cos the soundman's an hour late, I know I'll hear nothing but whingeing and complaining. You can chat away with them and compliment them during the gig and after their set only to turn around at the end of the night and see them bitching to the promoter about your band. This is what musicians are like. They are selfish c*nts. They are your enemy. Sure, there are some exceptions. But so what? Edited June 19, 2008 by The Funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='BigRedX' post='222106' date='Jun 19 2008, 01:20 PM']Luckily all the people who were coming to see us turned up early , otherwise I'd have been demanding refunds of door money all round. Next time we'll be doing what all the other bands did - arrive 10 minutes before your set is due to start.[/quote] Don't do that. Do what you did before. Turn up on time. The only thing you should do differently if the promoter tries to put you on at a different time is tell him "no", and tell him that he should just cut the other band from the gig. As all your crowd was there, it doesn't really matter what time you go on though, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='222140' date='Jun 19 2008, 01:45 PM']I'll always be courteous and polite but I'll never for one second assume that just because I'm getting on with someone from another band they're not going to do something to f*** it all up. If they do run over or act like twats, there's no reason not to be blunt about it. It's not just the other bands that are likely to work against you. Everyone else is likely to work against you, including the stage manager, the door staff and the sound engineer. Noone does their job properly and everyone talks out of their arse. Part of gigging life is learning how to deal with all the BS and overcome it. My way is to expect everyone else to be a total d!ck: unprofessional, unhelpful, discourteous, impolite, with no sense of punctuality. I always act the opposite way at gigs. On the other hand I know if I lend someone from another band something, they will either damage it, complain about it not being right or forget to return it at the end of the night. And if I offer to do sound for their soundcheck to get things rolling 'cos the soundman's an hour late, I know I'll hear nothing but whingeing and complaining. You can chat away with them and compliment them during the gig and after their set only to turn around at the end of the night and see them bitching to the promoter about your band. This is what musicians are like. They are selfish c*nts. They are your enemy. Sure, there are some exceptions. But so what?[/quote] Blimey, I'm scared in case we are ever on the same bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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