investment Bass purchase

[Dingus]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1371072297' post='2109594']
But a bass as an investment only realises its potential when you sell it. Until then its just a bass. And if you can't sell it for more than you paid for it taking into account inflation, then it's not an investment at all.
[/quote]

Most investments only realise their full potential when you liquidate them them . A bass isn't really any different , it just doesn't pay interest or dividends in the meantime . Even if you can't sell it for more than you paid for it in real terms , it's still an investment of sorts . The definition of an investment is not neccesarilly something which must return a profit . Limiting your losses is an established business strategy. A bass is an asset that has a limited deprciation , and that can be a good option . Spend two grand on computer equipment or consumer electronics of some kind and two grand on a bass and see what you can get back out of each of them in ten years .

[afterimage]

keep looking don't buy at a high price buy something you like

[Conan]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1370850734' post='2106163']
I think the used market will become oversaturated with signature models over the next five years (especially high-end stuff; Will Lee, Bob Glaub, Roscoe Beck etc) they'll be discontinued; and then wait another 5 years and that's when you start thinking about selling!

Truckstop
[/quote]

I think the Roscoe Becks may be worth a risk... They get excellent reviews, there aren't too many around and they are no longer made, they can be bought very reasonably now. In twenty years time? Hmmmmm...

Edited June 13, 2013 by Conan

[Dingus]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1371136458' post='2110342']
I think the Roscoe Becks may be worth a risk... They get excellent reviews, there aren't too many around and they are no longer made, they can be bought very reasonably now. In twenty years time? Hmmmmm...
[/quote]

I think you are right on this , and the four string ones were made in even fewer numbers and so might be even more collectable . It helps that they were and are great basses .

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1371136458' post='2110342']
I think the Roscoe Becks may be worth a risk... They get excellent reviews, there aren't too many around and they are no longer made, they can be bought very reasonably now. In twenty years time? Hmmmmm...
[/quote]

Yip - I'm hangin' on to mine.

[Conan]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1371137856' post='2110383']
Yip - I'm hangin' on to mine.
[/quote]

I spotted that! Just as well - there have been a few times when I have seriously considered that bass!

Still, it will look and sound great the next time you are jamming with your mate Knopfler!

Edited June 13, 2013 by Conan

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1371047140' post='2109063']
Don't disagree, i personally wouldnt pay £2500 for a late 70's Fender, because i don't want one, and think there are better basses out there for that money, both in playability, and also from an investment perspective. But, if I'd always dreamed of owning a vintage Fender Jazz, and now found myself in a position to buy one, for whatever the reason, and had a budget of £2500, then I would want the best bang for my buck. At the present time, that would be a really nice example of a mid 70's Jazz. if they find a nice one, then its still a good buy. Are there better basses out there for that money?, maybe, but will they scratch the itch you've had to own an old Fender?, No.
[/quote] talking of which did you ever score yourself an old jazz bass?
[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1371060512' post='2109361']
The original post talked about an investment and I quote 'The idea is buy it for as close to 1k as possible then sell it in 15 years for 10k ;-)

In 1999 I worked in Rose Morris in Denmark Street and sold a 58 P Bass for £3200.; I sold one for £7000 10 years later in another shop.
In 2000 I worked in Two-5 in Denmark Street and sold a 57 Strat for £5,000 which I though was super expensive then. In 2008 NKR guitars sold one for £25,000 when I was working there.
In 2006 when I worked in Regent Sounds in Denmark Street I sold a 1960 Jazz Bass for £10,000. In 2008 the exact same bass was sold in NKR guitars for £18000.

Now those are what I call investments, but those margins are most likely to never be repeated again, guitars and huge margins have had their day.

Saying that 70's stuff will go up accordingly is bizarre, did 70's stuff increase that much too, answer is no. The build quality is poorer, there are way more out there and they are not as desirable to collectors, and unfortunately collectors push up prices. You can still buy one for a grand if you look hard enough, you can still find a joker selling one at £3200. The market is so false now due to people misunderstanding why the right stuff goes up in value.

Everything goes up though, so has late 70's gear. Petrol goes up, cans of beans etc. I cant believe a 60'sRI Jazz Bass is over £1700 these days, wtf?!!!

People price vintage gear at silly prices, not always prices to sell. They hit and hope, because people have bought into a myth that may earn a few quid more than a crappy 2.5% ISA, but won't be what the original poster requested.
[/quote] I think you maybe prove that NKR guitars are good at selling, if nothing else!
But I do think it's daft that the new RI basses are over £1700 new - I don't understand why anyone would buy them, I tried the new 70's jazz (74ri??) and... it was... well it wasn't very good at all.

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1371145526' post='2110531']
talking of which did you ever score yourself an old jazz bass?
I think you maybe prove that NKR guitars are good at selling, if nothing else!
But I do think it's daft that the new RI basses are over £1700 new - I don't understand why anyone would buy them, I tried the new 70's jazz (74ri??) and... it was... well it wasn't very good at all.
[/quote]

lol, I know, crazy prices eh?!!!!!

Seriously though, the 1960 Jazz Bass was insanely good, (best bass I ever played, period), the wood Fender used between 59 and 61 was something special for me, but 18k special? Only for the rich i think. That Jazz Bass inspired me to get my 1964 Jazz Bass, which was a refinish. I got it in 2004/5 for £2200 but sold it 2 years ago for £3500 to buy a flat. I wish I still had it, especially at that price! Thing is, I now have a 63 Custom Shop which I got second hand a few months ago for £1000. The CS and my old 64 are very different basses indeed, but they are equal in their magic and quality, just in very different ways.

When you can buy a Custom Shop Fender Jazz new for £1859 (Coda) why would you pay a little less for an American Vintage? I'm not saying that the AV is a bad bass, I just don't get the price!

NKR Guitars all the way for me, they have some stunning stock at times and are the last real old school rock n roll shop left that i know of.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1371148505' post='2110589']
lol, I know, crazy prices eh?!!!!!

Seriously though, the 1960 Jazz Bass was insanely good, (best bass I ever played, period), the wood Fender used between 59 and 61 was something special for me, but 18k special? Only for the rich i think. That Jazz Bass inspired me to get my 1964 Jazz Bass, which was a refinish. I got it in 2004/5 for £2200 but sold it 2 years ago for £3500 to buy a flat. I wish I still had it, especially at that price! Thing is, I now have a 63 Custom Shop which I got second hand a few months ago for £1000. The CS and my old 64 are very different basses indeed, but they are equal in their magic and quality, just in very different ways.

When you can buy a Custom Shop Fender Jazz new for £1859 (Coda) why would you pay a little less for an American Vintage? I'm not saying that the AV is a bad bass, I just don't get the price!

NKR Guitars all the way for me, they have some stunning stock at times and are the last real old school rock n roll shop left that i know of.
[/quote]AV = not bad, absolutely nothing special. Seemed a step down from the older AV range which i quite liked. Who buys all the nice resonant timber or are we just running out?

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1371149307' post='2110608']
AV = not bad, absolutely nothing special. Seemed a step down from the older AV range which i quite liked. Who buys all the nice resonant timber or are we just running out?
[/quote]

Might just be a case of good ones /bad ones? I've played a few not so good pre CBS guitars and basses, wood will always be unique so there will always a bad example out there.

Plus, it amazes me just how many guitar shops have basses on the wall that seem awful as they need a set up or simple truss rod adjustment. So many guys in guitar shops (and bands) these days can't even adjust a neck, it's not exactly rocket science!!!!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1371149867' post='2110616']
Might just be a case of good ones /bad ones? I've played a few not so good pre CBS guitars and basses, wood will always be unique so there will always a bad example out there.

Plus, it amazes me just how many guitar shops have basses on the wall that seem awful as they need a set up or simple truss rod adjustment. So many guys in guitar shops (and bands) these days can't even adjust a neck, it's not exactly rocket science!!!!
[/quote] maybe, could just have been a duff one. In my limited experience the good instruments tend to resonate and feel alive as you play them (unless they specifically are built not too) whereas cheaper instruments tend to feel more dead and plastic like - which isn't to say they can't be ok instruments - just i'ld expect more difference between a £1800 bass and a £280 one. but yeah - could have been a differ.

Poorly trained staff fiddling with truss rods.... hmmm

[BetaFunk]

This is an interesting article..........


http://planetbotch.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/vintage-guitars-prices-set-to-crash.html

[Dingus]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1371158043' post='2110765']
This is an interesting article..........


[url="http://planetbotch.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/vintage-guitars-prices-set-to-crash.html"]http://planetbotch.b...t-to-crash.html[/url]
[/quote]

This might cheer you up a bit . I saw these at Andy Baxters the other day and i they look remarkably similar to your beautiful early Seventies Jazz Bass you showed us :

[url="http://www.andybaxterbass.com/details.php?id=228"]http://www.andybaxte...ails.php?id=228[/url]

[url="http://www.andybaxterbass.com/details.php?id=402"]http://www.andybaxte...ails.php?id=402[/url]

Looks like you have made a good investment there , regardless of how the market goes , and good luck to you .

Edited June 13, 2013 by Dingus

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1371145526' post='2110531']
talking of which did you ever score yourself an old jazz bass?
[/quote]

Hi Luke, no, its still an option, but on closer inspection (more pics), it has two extra holes in the pickguard from where the thumbrest was moved at some point, which is a shame, and makes a 5 figure price tag less attractive!!

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1371154537' post='2110704']
Poorly trained staff fiddling with truss rods.... hmmm
[/quote]

Thats the case with a lot of shops though.
A local shop has a few fenders ranging from Squiers to US standards and a MIJ MM sig.

They are all pretty much on par since they've never seen a setup or string change since leaving the factories.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1371162046' post='2110841']
This might cheer you up a bit . I saw these at Andy Baxters the other day and i they look remarkably similar to your beautiful early Seventies Jazz Bass you showed us :

[url="http://www.andybaxterbass.com/details.php?id=228"]http://www.andybaxte...ails.php?id=228[/url]

[url="http://www.andybaxterbass.com/details.php?id=402"]http://www.andybaxte...ails.php?id=402[/url]

Looks like you have made a good investment there , regardless of how the market goes , and good luck to you .
[/quote]
Yes i saw that on Andy Baxters website. I noticed it because like mine it has black block inlays where most natural ones with white pickguard the inlays are also white.

I agree that mine was a good buy but i did buy well over 20 years ago and i bought it because i'd always wanted a Jazz Bass not as an inverstment. There were some nice new basses on the market at that time (there seemed to be more guitar shops than ever back then) in the £400-£500 price range so no one was busting down doors to buy an old Jazz with a bit of buckle rash and a few dings.
I sold my nearly new Bass Collection SB301(?) for £225 to buy the Jazz, so half what i paid for the Jazz.

My only regret was that in the same shop standing next to it was a Shergold Marathon 6 for £195 which i didn't buy! No way could i have laid out another couple of hundred quid after just spend £450 on the Jazz!

[1970]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1370964129' post='2108016']
I toy with investment instruments from time to time but generally stick to quick flips.

Buy too cheap and sell at normal price.
[/quote]

I'm with you on this one - a quick ROI of 20-30% is better than any bank can give you.

[1970]

(then spend it all on beer)

[Dingus]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1371206237' post='2111139']
Yes i saw that on Andy Baxters website. I noticed it because like mine it has black block inlays where most natural ones with white pickguard the inlays are also white.

I agree that mine was a good buy but i did buy well over 20 years ago and i bought it because i'd always wanted a Jazz Bass not as an inverstment. There were some nice new basses on the market at that time (there seemed to be more guitar shops than ever back then) in the £400-£500 price range so no one was busting down doors to buy an old Jazz with a bit of buckle rash and a few dings.
I sold my nearly new Bass Collection SB301(?) for £225 to buy the Jazz, so half what i paid for the Jazz.

My only regret was that in the same shop standing next to it was a Shergold Marathon 6 for £195 which i didn't buy! No way could i have laid out another couple of hundred quid after just spend £450 on the Jazz!
[/quote]

I think the black block inlays were used on all the maple boards on Jazz Basses between 1970 when Fender introduced the option of a maple board on the Jazz to the very end of 1973 when they changed the overall design of that bass and introduced the pearloid markers for the 1974 NAMM show . I too can remember when Seventies Fenders were reasonably priced , but twenty odd years and a surge in demand can do wonders for the price . I'm not sure the price of the Shergold would have fared quite so well , but no doubt some indie band Peter Hook wannabe would take it off your hands nowadays for a lot more than you could have paid for it back then .

Edited June 14, 2013 by Dingus

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1371213741' post='2111271'] I'm not sure the price of the Shergold would have fared quite so well , but no doubt some indie band Peter Hook wannabe would take it off your hands nowadays for a lot more than you could have paid for it back then .
[/quote]
The last couple of Shergold Marathon 6s i've seen in the last year have gone for over 1k and it seems that the price is rising. As you say it's the Joy Division/New Order thing.