51m0n Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Still ahead of me, note the deadline is 15 of [b]May[/b] this time (so you still have time, but do get on with it)... Largely cos I'm busy and cant enter this if I'm also doing all the uploading and admin side and I only have a month to do it all. It just uses up all my 'spare' time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 ^ Cheers Si, still plenty of time I haven't even listened the stems yet. Been totally sidetracked by this month's composition competition (which I thought was going to be quick and easy with some acoustic guitar stuff - then remembered I can't actually play guitar. Doh!). But anyway. I will [i]definitely[/i] be doing a mix. Well done to you early birds who've already got it finished. [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1366141631' post='2048955']Can i just say that this thread is my favourite source of fun on the interweb. Thank you for making this game.[/quote] +1 to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Ok, stupid question ahoy...! The stems for this track include stereo pairs of some instruments - each of the guitars, for example, has a left and right channel stem. I've never encountered this before (I've led a sheltered life...). Looking at the waveforms, each L/R pair seems almost identical. So... if I sum them I'm assuming I might encounter nasty phasing issues (cancellation, weird tonal changes, etc). So what's the advantage of using stereo signals for these instruments? Or rather - is there any significant disadvantage to using just one of the channels as a mono signal? I've always assumed that mono is best and stereo should only be used in rare instances when the instrument really requires it (a wide pad sound, for example), but of course I could be very wrong. Edited April 22, 2013 by Skol303 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1366625454' post='2054908'] Ok, stupid question ahoy...! The stems for this track include stereo pairs of some instruments - each of the guitars, for example, has a left and right channel stem. I've never encountered this before. Looking at the waveforms, each L/R pair seems almost identical. So... if I sum them I'm assuming I might encounter nasty phasing issues (cancellation, weird tonal changes, etc). So what's the advantage of using stereo signals for these instruments? Or rather - is there any significant disadvantage to using just one of the channels as a mono signal? [/quote] I can't really speculate on their motives, but I usually make a separate left and right stem, for me it's so I can do slightly different things to each channel on centre panned guitars, I find it gives a nice sort of stereo feel to centre panned bits, I only really like the drums and bass to be dead centre (I honestly don't get why people pan hi-hats, which is probably why I'd be a terrible producer). Back OT, I won't be doing this month, my composition comp entry has taken forever and it's given me DAW fatigue, for some reason I decided my entry needed a multi-layered string part and a glitchy sampled drum outro, two things I love hearing but hate programming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1366625454' post='2054908'] Ok, stupid question ahoy...! The stems for this track include stereo pairs of some instruments - each of the guitars, for example, has a left and right channel stem. I've never encountered this before (I've led a sheltered life...). Looking at the waveforms, each L/R pair seems almost identical. So... if I sum them I'm assuming I might encounter nasty phasing issues (cancellation, weird tonal changes, etc). So what's the advantage of using stereo signals for these instruments? Or rather - is there any significant disadvantage to using just one of the channels as a mono signal? I've always assumed that mono is best and stereo should only be used in rare instances when the instrument really requires it (a wide pad sound, for example), but of course I could be very wrong. [/quote] They may have recorded them with a stereo pair of SDCs (or whatever). There is a good argument fo rkeeping things as point sources rather than stereo spread. I have never experienced a single guitar as a stereo experience really, other than being over there (points to an specific part of the stage), same with piano, yet we often get stereo outputs from digital pianos, because 'thats how the player hears it', which is totally irrelevant in a mix, because the audience hears a piano over there (points to other side of stage) not spread across the whole stage. However counter to this is the entire argument of double tracking guitars, and spreading them as wide as possible, - but this works because the guitarist has relatively poor time and the fluctuations in his playing add to the sense of big wide guitars, and lots and lots of them. So really its a judgement call - how you want to make this sound. You could pick the channel that sounds best , you could mix both to a very slightly spread point (phase issues be damned), you could just spread them as wide as you can, wider than LR even. You choose... Edited April 22, 2013 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 ^ Cheers guys! Thanks for clarifying - that all makes total sense. I just wanted to check I wasn't missing some vital piece of know-how about working with separate L/R stems. I'll probably just pick the best channel from each and use that in mono, but we'll see... There. I've learnt something already this month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) I noticed last night that the system I used to 'check' my mix on had the bass control turned up full! After my dodgy mid heavy mix last month I had got a bit paranoid with my monitors and as a result of listening on the check system I dialled out loads of bass and kick! I was wondering why the studio monitors and the check system sounded so different!! Is it possible to do some tweaking and resubmit? Or am I out of time? Edited April 23, 2013 by Twigman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1366725524' post='2056446']Is it possible to do some tweaking and resubmit? Or am I out of time?[/quote] Plenty of time, Twig. We've got until 15th May I think... see earlier post from Si above. Otherwise I'm right royally stuffed! (barely started mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 bugger i now have 9 mixes to choose from here.... i am truly sick of this HA HA HA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 im gonna try this now i have a bit of time one question on k metering i set voxengo span to k-14, as said... now... when making sure it don't go above 0db, is there a way to set a ceiling, or is it just a matter of watching the meter and adapting the mix level to suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 It might seem odd , but I am not sure I can do much to what is already there , OK I get what Skol said about the number of dulpicate tracks , but there also seems to be a full LR mix on stems aswell Now I have done a few bits and will do a few more , but I am leaning toward a 'less is more' vibe with this one . Will I be cast into satans pit if I said that I quite liked the track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Yeah dont just put out the LR mix, thats the rough mix you're supposed to do better than Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1366820802' post='2057680'] im gonna try this now i have a bit of time one question on k metering i set voxengo span to k-14, as said... now... when making sure it don't go above 0db, is there a way to set a ceiling, or is it just a matter of watching the meter and adapting the mix level to suit? [/quote] Yeah, it is a meter, it does nothing but show you how loud the track is (in a very average level way), set it to not go over 0 and you're done, render that. Simples! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I have it on K-14C and the level meter on the right hand side isn't going above 0, is that right? If so I'm pretty much done, just need to reference it on some other systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Yep, that should be kool and the gang... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I've finally gotten started on the mix. To start with I thought "what a lot of tracks!", but once I read the stuff above it all made sense. I've approached it like we do playing live as a band. Started with the drums, then get the bass to fit in, then rhythm guitars, lead vocal & then lead instruments (violins & 3rd guitar). Next I'm doing the other instruments, then the backing vocals, then have a listen & tweak as necessary. I don't expect a great mix as I'm deaf (so it might have rather loud or sparkly hi hats), but i'm having fun with it. I like the song, reminds me of a Steve Earle song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1366821595' post='2057699'] Yeah, it is a meter, it does nothing but show you how loud the track is (in a very average level way), set it to not go over 0 and you're done, render that. Simples! [/quote] I dont really get the meter thing , sorry , I can level the volume to 0db on the meter and render it to wav , if I insert this wav to into a new project and K-meter it , it is at -16db , It sounds quiet to me , but I am unsure how to get to a definitive level now !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1366927390' post='2059241'] I dont really get the meter thing , sorry , I can level the volume to 0db on the meter and render it to wav , if I insert this wav to into a new project and K-meter it , it is at -16db , It sounds quiet to me , but I am unsure how to get to a definitive level now !! [/quote] My mixes are all quiet too...but we're all in the same boat I will be sending in a new one after me EQ mistake on mix1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 It seems to me that there must have been a lot of processing on the way in to the box on this one, so I don't have much to do. Turn everything up and it sounds good! The snare did seem very compressed though, or maybe it's just badly tuned, I really don't like the sound of it and it's taken me ages of messing about to get a sound with a bit of "crack". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigman Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1366960858' post='2059377'] It seems to me that there must have been a lot of processing on the way in to the box on this one, so I don't have much to do. Turn everything up and it sounds good![/quote] Most of my effort went into EQ (and other tricks) to bring the relevant instrument to the fore in the appropriate sections [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1366960858' post='2059377'] I really don't like the sound of it and it's taken me ages of messing about to get a sound with a bit of "crack". [/quote] Me too - transient shaper...EQ....think I've just about got some thwack back into it .... I experimented a lot here with sidechained gates - everything is ducking everything else....HA HA it was fun!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 that's interesting, I used a sidechained gate for the first time ever on this. It works pretty well! I've only ever used sidechained compressors before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 urgh , sidechain gates and compressors , I have entered a mix but will have do some further reading , I have only just got the fundamentals of EQ in my head , so thats pretty much what I have done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1367152293' post='2061738']urgh , sidechain gates and compressors , I have entered a mix but will have do some further reading , I have only just got the fundamentals of EQ in my head , so thats pretty much what I have done [/quote] Don't worry Lurks! 'Sidechaining' is when you use the ouput of one instrument to control a dyanmic processor attached to another.... hmmm, that's no clearer is it?! Ok, as an example: you might run the output of a kick drum into the 'sidechain' input of a compressor that's linked up to a bass guitar. So... every time the kick hits, it sends a signal to the compressor that 'ducks' (reduces) the volume of the bass, helping the kick to punch its way through the mix more easily. That's one common use of side-chaining but there are plenty more. Worth experimenting with, but it's not a [i]vital[/i] skill to learn like EQ'ing (IMO). PS: I started on the mix yesterday, and can I just say that I'm really liking this track!! Really, it's grown on me lots. I think I might actually be a closet country fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Cheers Paul , do you need special compressors for that trick , or should the std Reaper ones have that sort of functionality. I like the track too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 Reacomp has sidechaining capabilities - actually it's all around one of the best vanilla get compressors out there - read the reaper manual on how to set it up, it's very well written IIRC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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