Markbass SA450 V's TC Electronic RH450

[Pembo]

I've currently got the SA450, but something is pulling me towards swapping out the SA450 for the RH450. It may be just a case of [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/203858-markbass-sa450-vs-tc-electronic-rh450/page__pid__2029169#"]GAS[/url], as my SA450 serves me well as it is. It can sound a tad too clean, almost sterile at times, but i think that's more a case of bad EQ'ing in the mix on occasions.

So then, short of me actually driving for a couple/few hours to try out the RH450, what's your opinions?
From what i've experienced (SA450) and read (RH450), both are good amps with lots to give. Both have the 2 nice features, SA450 having the VPF & VLE and RH450 having the Tubetone & Spectracomp.
I think what's also pulling me to the RH450 is the 3 saveable memory banks. My band plays a mixture of countrypop/folk/slowcore/blues/soul orientated tunes. I'm thinking that with the RC4 footswitch it would be handy to have tried & trusted EQ's set up for different genres!

No doubt the "What cab are you using" [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/203858-markbass-sa450-vs-tc-electronic-rh450/page__pid__2029169#"]question[/url] will arise. I'm currently using a 15" Ashdown cab, but in the process of saving for either a Berg or Barefaced cab, after much valued advice received in my previous thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/203473-recommend-a-cab-for-me-please/"]http://basschat.co.u...-for-me-please/[/url]

[hamfist]

don't forget the excellent onboard tuner on the RH also ! and, yes the 3 memory slots are very useful

Edited March 30, 2013 by hamfist

[wateroftyne]

The RH450 was not my friend.

I'd rather play giant elastic bands than use that amp again.

[Pembo]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1364652062' post='2029240']
don't forget the excellent onboard tuner on the RH also ! and, yes the 3 memory slots are very useful
[/quote]
Fortunately, I rarely need to tune my bass as it just stays in tune forever. However, I do like the thought of preset EQ's stored.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364657524' post='2029316']
The RH450 was not my friend.

I'd rather play giant elastic bands than use that amp again.
[/quote]

what was so bad about it?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Pembo' timestamp='1364667862' post='2029522']
what was so bad about it?
[/quote]
Just not to my tastes, I suppose.

I had it for a year and gigged it extensively.

To me, it sounds like what it is - a low-powered amp that employs clever circuitry to remove all the steel, energy and dynamics from the signal to make is 'as loud as' a 450w amp.

Some people call it 'tubey', and like it - I didn't, so I sold it.

[steve-soar]

What's "Slowcore"?

[Pembo]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364668445' post='2029533']
Just not to my tastes, I suppose.

I had it for a year and gigged it extensively.

To me, it sounds like what it is - a low-powered amp that employs clever circuitry to remove all the steel, energy and dynamics from the signal to make is 'as loud as' a 450w amp.

Some people call it 'tubey', and like it - I didn't, so I sold it.
[/quote]

Dynamics are very important in our band. What genres of music do you normally play?

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1364669407' post='2029544']
What's "Slowcore"?
[/quote]

Slowcore is usually quiet, depressive, dynamic. Noteworthy bands would include Galaxie 500, Red House Painters, Low, Spiritualized, Codeine. It has kind of evolved from Shoegaze.

[51m0n]

I'd never call my sa450 sterile at all, how odd.....

[IanA]

Sa450 all the way, much purer deeper sound, the tc is very mid focussed and compresses like crazy when pushed above 1/2 volume, that's how tc get that much volume out of 236 watts!
Great feature set on the tc don't get me wrong and they are nicely put together, but not for me.

[Pembo]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1364673256' post='2029607']
I'd never call my sa450 sterile at all, how odd.....
[/quote]
A few times, not many by all means, it has felt like there was no presence/meat to the tone. Again, this is probably a mixture of my own amateur EQ'ing and not very good playing style. However, when i've managed to get it right, it sounds great, even through a cheap, wooly Ashdown 15" cab.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Pembo' timestamp='1364687856' post='2029754']
A few times, not many by all means, it has felt like there was no presence/meat to the tone.
[/quote]

If you feel that way about the SA450, IMO give the TC a wide berth.

[Musicman20]

I've used the 450/750 for a few years and I really like the tone of the amps.

I would spend time with one if you can. It's a certain tone you may like/not like!

Volume and dynamics aren't an issue, IMO, from either of them. In fact, when I had the 450, I felt it had the horsepower to be much louder than its 500w competitors.

[The Dark Lord]

I had an RH450 for a year or so, gigged it extensively and it was great. Very versatile and did my sound just fine. Plenty loud enough with the accompanying TC RS cabs. I'd highly recommend it.

[Pembo]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364689389' post='2029780']
If you feel that way about the SA450, IMO give the TC a wide berth.
[/quote]

Oooh, that surprises me. I thought the TC would have had more 'colour'/modelling tone about it.

Think I need to try one really, but new cab is the priority at the moment. Think i'll pack a flask and sandwiches and sit in Bassdirect all day.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Pembo' timestamp='1364727294' post='2030009']
Think i'll pack a flask and sandwiches and sit in Bassdirect all day.
[/quote]

Excellent plan !

........ but don't forget to try a few amps/cabs out while you're there enjoying the view.

Edited March 31, 2013 by hamfist

[hamfist]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364689389' post='2029780']
If you feel that way about the SA450, IMO give the TC a wide berth.
[/quote]

Did you ever use any other RH's besides your own one ? I'm wondering if yours was faulty.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Pembo' timestamp='1364727294' post='2030009']
Think i'll pack a flask and sandwiches and sit in Bassdirect all day.
[/quote]

I'm not sure the characteristics I disliked so much about the TC would have been apparent playing solo in a shop. I can never evaluate an amp until I've gigged it a few times in different environments.

Whatever it is I look for in an amp, the TC just didn't have it. Don't let that put you off, though - plenty of people really like them.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1364727663' post='2030014']


Did you ever use any other RH's besides your own one ? I'm wondering if yours was faulty.
[/quote]

Nah, but quite a few other owners were of the same opinion, so it's safe to assume it was OK. Unless there was a faulty batch, of course. Plus, I think the new owner was happy enough.

After I sold it, and I read about the 'true' output and the power management system, and it all made sense.

[Pembo]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1364727559' post='2030011']
Excellent plan !

........ but don't forget to try a few amps/cabs out while you're there enjoying the view.
[/quote]

Haha, yeah! I'll probably be overwhelmed by all the porn on display and forget to try anything.

[leroydiamond]

A mate of mine purchased the RH450 and TC cabs and we compared that set up to a little mark 2 and markbass cabs. The TC gear had lots of features but just did not go nearly as loud as the markbass gear.

[gazhowe]

My own situation is similar to the OP so here's my experience;

I play in a 4 piece rock covers band and tested a RH450 and MarkBass MoMark with a Berg AE410 at Bass Direct. I settled on the MarkBass with the Berg as I preferred it's tone over the features of the RH. After gigging with this setup for 2 years I bought a second hand RH450 six months ago to provide me with a lightweight backup amp, and partly to satisfy my GAS for the RH feature set.

I've done 15-20 gigs with the RH and I'm finally becoming more satisfied with the tone, which is longer than it took with my Momark however this only has the VLE and VPF for tone control. (My band won't do full scale rehearsals so I generally have limited time to try different eq settings in soundchecks). As we had a little more time on Saturday I took my MoMark and did an A/B comparison test of both amps during the sound check and I was surprised to find that the RH sounded fuller and better in the mix. As I don't have the same EQ controls on both amps I'm aware that its not an accurate comparison and I'm sure that I could also get that fuller sound with the MarkBass if necessary.

Having been pleasantly surprised with the results of the brief A/B test I'm happy to stick with the RH for gigging as the footswitch, tuner and pre-sets are really practical.

With regards to comments about the RH being compressed when pushed, I haven't found this to be an issue IME. I don't want to re-ignite the debate about whether the RH450 is a 236w or 450w amp, or whether the RH450 is louder than my 500w MoMark, as we don't put my bass through our PA and I've still never needed to run either amp past noon, so its a moot point for me.

IMO, the RH450 is a great little amp with a very appealing and practical set of features. I would suggest you look for a second hand RH450 and keep hold of your SA450 until you have have plenty of time to evaluate the RH450 in a live situation.

Edited March 31, 2013 by gazhowe

[Pembo]

[quote name='gazhowe' timestamp='1364737258' post='2030153']
I would suggest you look for a second hand RH450 and keep hold of your SA450 until you have have plenty of time to evaluate the RH450 in a live situation.
[/quote]

I think this may be the answer. Insightful post, thankyou. I suppose i could love the tone of the RH in a solo setting, but find that it does not suit in our band setup, or the opposite.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='gazhowe' timestamp='1364737258' post='2030153']
With regards to comments about the RH being compressed when pushed, I haven't found this to be an issue IME. I don't want to re-ignite the debate about whether the RH450 is a 236w or 450w amp, or whether the RH450 is louder than my 500w MoMark, as we don't put my bass through our PA and I've still never needed to run either amp past noon, so its a moot point for me.
[/quote]

I had a 30 watt Quad amp that went louder than my 100 watt Technics amp through the same Mission speakers.
I'd try amps based on what it sounds like & if you like the extra flashing lights.

[nugget]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1364728226' post='2030020']
Nah, but quite a few other owners were of the same opinion, so it's safe to assume it was OK. Unless there was a faulty batch, of course. Plus, I think the new owner was happy enough.

[/quote]


I hate writing negative comments on amps as not everyone likes the same thing (thankfully) but this is one that i feel very stongly about.

I had an RH450 for a while and tried everything to get it to sound right to me. I downloaded the mid centre frequency charts etc and spent a long time with it and it really did nothing for me. It worked and no probs with volume, remained clear at high levels but very bland and totally lacked character

I've since spoke to 2 other ex-RH450 owners who say the same thing.

Try before you buy, but it did sound good at home volume and on its own cranked up but crap in our typical pub band doing rock covers. All the MB stuff i've heard live sounds great (but never owned one)

Edited April 2, 2013 by nugget

[hamfist]

Not aiming this comment at anyone in particular, but with quad parametric EQ controls, you really do need a good ear and a bit of patience to get the best from it. There is a lot of potential to ruin your tone with poor EQing, and compression, and tubetone.
I suspect that a few of those who have not got on with the RH simply don't have the ears and almost resent the potential complexity of the EQ.
Also, I am equally sure that some folks who have not got on with them simply don't find the sound they are looking for due to the fact that they are looking for a different style of amp.

What is fact, is that the RH has an incredibly versatile EQ section. Personally, I have found it very musical and with a bit of fiddling I have been able to sculpt the midrange exactly to my tastes (and the midrange is where most of the differences in "tone" are IMO.