Refusing To Play A Song

[KevB]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1362141455' post='1996303']
I 'lost my religion' a long time ago - I hate that song with a passion. The guitarist knows I don't like it. On the odd occasion he decides to do it regardless, I'll still play along for the sake of the 'show', but he knows he's going to get a mouthful as soon as we're out of earshot of the punters

Edit: I convinced him to do Fire as an alternative REM number, which is so much better. Still working on What's the Frequency Kenneth - their best track imho.
[/quote]

Each to their own I guess. I quite like doing 'religion' though I don't play it regularly, only occasionally at jam sessions. I think it's a good bassline that serves the song well.

[Roger2611]

Really the only thing that matters to me is that we can do the song justice and the song will do us justice either one doesn't happen and I will have an issue with doing the song

[TimR]

I find it quite dissapointing that people would refuse to play a song before they've even tried it to see what the band can come up with.

To refuse to play an Oasis song just because it's an Oasis song doesn't make sense. I mean you don;t have to do all the fighting stuff and your singer doesn't have to have a whiney voice to pull it off. Just play the chords, bang the drums and sing the words. It's not hard.

Our singer has said he doesn't really like ZZTop. We haven't got long beards or american accents and we don't sound anything like ZZTop when we play their songs

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1362162133' post='1996700']
Really the only thing that matters to me is that we can do the song justice and the song will do us justice either one doesn't happen and I will have an issue with doing the song
[/quote]

I cant see any other valid reasons.

Except maybe a song thats just too personal, or say, with the name of an ex in the title.

Part of the trouble is, doing a song your/your bands way aint what most covers bands are about. Which is a shame in a way, even real pap can sometimes be turned into good numbers.

[TimR]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1362232073' post='1997288']
I cant see any other valid reasons.

Except maybe a song thats just too personal, or say, with the name of an ex in the title.

Part of the trouble is, doing a song your/your bands way aint what most covers bands are about. Which is a shame in a way, even real pap can sometimes be turned into good numbers.
[/quote]

I think bands seem to spend too long getting the song 'exactly like the original', when really, no matter how hard you try it will never sound exactly like the original. Therefore without consciously trying to make it sound different it will sound different and until you try a song you don't know how different it will sound and whether even it will sound good or bad.

Having a closed mind is not what being a musician is about. Well, at least it isn't for me. If it was, I would still be listening and playing along to Iron Maiden's Live After Death album...

Edited March 2, 2013 by TimR

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1362232478' post='1997294']
I think bands seem to spend too long getting the song 'exactly like the original', without consciously trying to make it sound different it will sound different and until you try a song you don't know how different it will sound and whether even it will sound good or bad.

[/quote]

Yeah, thats what I meant, although I was thinking more of more radical changes. The difference between Sinatras, and Sid Vicious's versions of my Way for exmple.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1362232073' post='1997288']
I cant see any other valid reasons.

Except maybe a song thats just too personal, or say, with the name of an ex in the title.

Isn't this why Wilko Johnson left/was kicked out of Dr Feelgood? Because he wrote a song (walking on the edge?) which dared to mention his girlfriend....
[/quote]

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1362232478' post='1997294']
I think bands seem to spend too long getting the song 'exactly like the original', when really, no matter how hard you try it will never sound exactly like the original. Therefore without consciously trying to make it sound different it will sound different and until you try a song you don't know how different it will sound and whether even it will sound good or bad.

Having a closed mind is not what being a musician is about. Well, at least it isn't for me. If it was, I would still be listening and playing along to Iron Maiden's Live After Death album...
[/quote]

Agreed, I'm trying to get a band together at the minute and we had a first rehearsal/audition session last week. I'm hoping to do a folky/country/skiffle thing and when the guitarist/singer suggested Bon Jovi's Wanted dead or alive, I was more than doubtful. It turned out to be the best thing we did by miles! Normally the sort of 80's rubbish I hate, but with acoustic guitar, db, fiddle and stripped down drum kit played with brushes, it really did sound good! Very different to the original, and we're now talking about doing a lot more of that kind of stuff....

[TimR]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1362233118' post='1997305']
Yeah, thats what I meant, although I was thinking more of more radical changes. The difference between Sinatras, and Sid Vicious's versions of my Way for exmple.
[/quote]

That's a concious decision to change the genre and feel of the song in the same way as I've heard metal bands doing very good versions of Britan Spear's - Hit Me Baby One More Time. With no sense of comedy.

The song will sound different just by virtue of other people playing it and different instrumentation. You don't need to change much

Edited March 2, 2013 by TimR

[TimR]

My biggest frustration is when someone says we can't do a certain tune because we don't have a brass section, or a strings section, or a drum machine, and doesn't understand why when we pick a tune done by a band with the exact same lineup as us it sounds wrong.

[musophilr]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1362233869' post='1997326']
My biggest frustration is when someone says we can't do a certain tune because we don't have a brass section, or a strings section, or a drum machine, and doesn't understand why when we pick a tune done by a band with the exact same lineup as us it sounds wrong.
[/quote]

Not quite the same here ... they pick a song and then say it sounds sh*t and not as good as the record, when the record had keys & a brass section and all we've got is 2 guitars one of whom occasionally doubles on keys to fill in some harmonies but is by no means a keys wizard. Or they pick a really cheesey song and then whinge 'cos it sounds ... cheesey.

I get very pissed off when I'm asked to play a guitar part or riff that is clearly non-trivial but there's no dots, not even a chord chart, and the available recording is some crappy MP3 from which you can't tell whats going on in the music anyway. I'm getting to the point where I'll tell them that if they want me to play something they'll have to give me something I can read, otherwise I'm not playing it.

[ezbass]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1362233869' post='1997326']
My biggest frustration is when someone says we can't do a certain tune because we don't have a brass section, or a strings section, or a drum machine, and doesn't understand why when we pick a tune done by a band with the exact same lineup as us it sounds wrong.
[/quote]Yeah I feel your pain here (or at least I have done in the past). Unless you're a tribute band, all songs are up for grabs to do in your own style (the various versions of Superstition by famous artists other than SW are a case in point). My general rule is, try it and if it works do it, if not bin it, just don't go in with the preconception that it should sound exactly like the original.

[GarethFlatlands]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1362234598' post='1997336']
Yeah I feel your pain here (or at least I have done in the past). Unless you're a tribute band, all songs are up for grabs to do in your own style (the various versions of Superstition by famous artists other than SW are a case in point). My general rule is, try it and if it works do it, if not bin it, just don't go in with the preconception that it should sound exactly like the original.
[/quote]

There are about 8 clavinova tracks on 'Superstition' so you have to really. I've got a keyboard with a lot of different usable sounds on it so we usually fudged any sounds we couldn't make ourselves.

[TimR]

[quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1362234383' post='1997333']
Not quite the same here ... they pick a song and then say it sounds sh*t and not as good as the record, when the record had keys & a brass section and all we've got is 2 guitars one of whom occasionally doubles on keys to fill in some harmonies but is by no means a keys wizard. Or they pick a really cheesey song and then whinge 'cos it sounds ... cheesey.

I get very pissed off when I'm asked to play a guitar part or riff that is clearly non-trivial but there's no dots, not even a chord chart, and the available recording is some crappy MP3 from which you can't tell whats going on in the music anyway. I'm getting to the point where I'll tell them that if they want me to play something they'll have to give me something I can read, otherwise I'm not playing it.
[/quote]

The best solution is to record the song and take it away to listen to and see why they sound different. What are people putting in that they don;t need to and what are people not playing that needs to be played. I find often someone is overplaying a simple part because they find it boring which leaves no space for an importart part to fit in.

[TimR]

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1362234910' post='1997344']
There are about 8 clavinova tracks on 'Superstition' so you have to really. I've got a keyboard with a lot of different usable sounds on it so we usually fudged any sounds we couldn't make ourselves.
[/quote]

As long as the keyboard sounds are not 'cheesy'. In my last band they keyboard player had thousands of sounds. In the end for every song we played we stuck to padded strings, hammond organ, real piano or electric piano. Everything else is was just trying to sound like the original and not quite making it. Loads of songs sounded so much better for not trying to copy the keys sound or playing brass on keyboards.

You can get away with keyboard brass on a record because your eyes can't see someone playing the keys. Live though, your ears can't lie to your brain because your eyes are giving it away even with hundreds of pounds worth of brass samples.

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1362233543' post='1997323']
That's a concious decision to change the genre and feel of the song in the same way as I've heard metal bands doing very good versions of Britan Spear's - Hit Me Baby One More Time. With no sense of comedy.

The song will sound different just by virtue of other people playing it and different instrumentation. You don't need to change much
[/quote]

Agreed, you dont NEED to, but sometimes a good number comes out of it. And it saves on the bad feeling you get from a blunt refusal.

Edited March 2, 2013 by BILL POSTERS

[Jacqueslemac]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1362233543' post='1997323']
That's a concious decision to change the genre and feel of the song in the same way as I've heard metal bands doing very good versions of Britan Spear's - Hit Me Baby One More Time. With no sense of comedy.

The song will sound different just by virtue of other people playing it and different instrumentation. You don't need to change much
[/quote]

When it was suggested we play Toxic, I listened to the original and didn't enjoy it at all. We stuck with it and our version sounds very, very different (not least because we have a male singer).

I hate most Guns 'n' Roses songs because of Axl's whining voice, but don't mind rehearsing to our own version in my headphones,because our singer's voice is a lot less grating.

One of the guitarists recently suggested doing some other pop song. My response was that I didn't like the original, but was looking forward to how he and the other guitarist had worked out their parts before passing judgement.

Refusing to even try a band's songs, just because you don't like that band seems a bit blinkered. It's like saying "I don't like seafood". Can prawns and smoked haddock really be lumped into the same sweeping statement?

[ezbass]

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1362234910' post='1997344']


There are about 8 clavinova tracks on 'Superstition' so you have to really. I've got a keyboard with a lot of different usable sounds on it so we usually fudged any sounds we couldn't make ourselves.
[/quote]I was actually thinking along the lines of Jeff Beck, SRV and The Hoax where they've done it in their own particular styles (rock, blues, whatever) and their own sound, but your point is still valid. Actually 'urban rumour' has it the Stevie Wonder wrote Superstition for Jeff Beck but Motown told him to keep it and release himself.

[Jacqueslemac]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1362240663' post='1997450']
I like prawns and smoked haddock, but not winkles, so where am I in the seafood debate please?
[/quote]

Winkle-picky?

[tauzero]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1362233543' post='1997323']
The song will sound different just by virtue of other people playing it and different instrumentation. You don't need to change much
[/quote]

There are some songs that I dislike the production of in the original and prefer the sound when we do it - Mr Brightside and the microphone-down-a-drainpipe sound or Kasabian's Underdog with the far-too-excessively-distorted guitar (ditto Foo Fighters).

I must admit that it depresses me a little (with a different band) when social club audiences get up and dance to "Red Red f***ing Whine" because there's no chance of it disappearing from the setlist. The new singer has brought in a couple of rubbish new songs. One is Moves Like Jagger - ironically band A plays a decent Maroon 5 song, This Love. The other is Jessie J's Price tag - I have seen her lauded for her great talent but I have yet to see any evidence of it. But there are a couple of Lady Gaga songs that are rather good when we do them (ie. without the Eurovision thud-thud-thud relentless bass drum).

[louisthebass]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1362002489' post='1994433']
I saw this posted recently. A band member actually unplugged his bass and walked off stage because he didnt want to play a song because he didnt like it?
It may be because I'm getting on a bit, but if we are getting paid to do a gig, then the least we can do is to remain on the stage.
If people want Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl etc, then its our job to give them what they want.
Rant over, As you were.
[/quote]

You've pretty much summed up my attitude towards it - if you're being paid by whoever, then having a pro attitude should always be the priority.

[TimR]

Indeed. I'm sure that what most audience members hear in their heads is not what we're playing. In fact I'm fairly confident that even what our guitarist hears in his head is not what he is playing.

[martin8708]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1362251936' post='1997654']


+ 1....A really good song, no matter what style it is, can be stripped right back and played on an acoustic guitar, so a band can cover any song. All you have to do is put your stamp on it. Gets harder when you are tackling Kraftwerk songs right enough
[/quote]

This one thousand times .
I did 10 years in a duo with just an acoustic guitar and bass and we would tackle most songs , the audience probably realise you don't have a three piece horn section, but fill in the gaps in their minds . It also teaches you to improvise , I've done a few sax lines with a kazoo taped to my mike .
If its a good song , with good lyrics , it will stand up on its own.

[martin8708]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1362254091' post='1997692']


Yeah, we used to be a two piece with a drum machine ( ) and we had to get by . We tackled all sorts and as you say , when there is a fancy keyboard or horn part, you strum and the audience gets it. kazoos are not given the respect they deserve! The unsung hero of cover bands
[/quote]

We started with a drum box , but soon dropped it . ( It packed up ) We would take tambourines and maracas and other small percussion instruments and hand them out to the audience who would join in with the songs . Great way to get a free percussion section and audience participation as well.