Hamer. A sad day.

[peteb]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1357231464' post='1919503']
Precisely. I've heard that Hamer made great guitars---but I don't think I've [i]ever [/i]seen one in the flesh. Not at a gig, not in a shop, not at a mates' house.
[/quote]
I have and they were indeed great guitars (never actually played one of their basses thru)

I think that they started to go out of fashion along with the other 'super strat' makers when more traditional looking instruments went out of fashion, propelling Fender back to domination of the market! Fender bought them (presumably at a reasonable price) to eliminate a possible competitor and protect their brand!

[RhysP]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1357235935' post='1919597']
I have and they were indeed great guitars (never actually played one of their basses thru)

I think that they started to go out of fashion along with the other 'super strat' makers when more traditional looking instruments went out of fashion, propelling Fender back to domination of the market! Fender bought them (presumably at a reasonable price) to eliminate a possible competitor and protect their brand!
[/quote]

They only made "Super Strat" style guitars for a comparatively short period - the vast majority of their models are far more Gibson like in terms of construction methods.

[MacDaddy]

Love my Hamers's. A blitz bass and a Chapparal guitar.

Didn't they pull out of the rock/metal market in the 90's?

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1357231700' post='1919508']
You obviously aren't aware of what actually happened - Fender actually started the process of closing Hamer down almost as soon as they bought them. They stopped Hamer producing guitars to supply to shops & turned them into a "special order only" outfit. How the hell is a guitar maker supposed to keep up a profile & sell guitars if the owner stops them supplying shops with their instruments?
[/quote]

For all we know, Fender bought Kaman, got a proper look at Hamer's books, and just thought "hmm, maybe this isn't going to work..." ?

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1357233913' post='1919554']
Perhaps they had prospered nicely, as you say - but their original operation clearly didn't fit with Fender's wider business plan, or their intents if they made the decision so quickly. The above sounds like a rationalisation exercise, from what you've said RhysP - Fender pulling them back to what is, perhaps, a core strength. Others have noted their boutique nature and quality, so why not?

In terms of the mass market, they weren't a brand fit to compete in the way that Fender itself does - perhaps Fender thought the spare production could be better utilised for other purposes, or assets sold on to recoup on costs. And, in any case, would Fender want a Hamer sub-brand challenging their main lines? I'm not so sure, unless there were some real differentiation.

There are a whole host of reasons why Fender might make that decision very early in the deal, and not simply to put a 'competitor' out of business. This type of move is very common in business.

Just musing, maybe shedding a light on some decisions which might otherwise seem bizarre - I'd quite like a look at Fender's strategy, mind, out of professional interest
[/quote]

This sounds far more likely than "big bad Fender spends large amount of money acquiring profitable competitor purely to shut them down". Fender completely rejuvenated the Gretsch brand---why not put them out of business too?

Recent Hamer models compete more with Gibson in terms of spec than they do with most Fender designs. Fender would be perfectly happy to own a profit-making brand that competed directly with their biggest rivals.

Its a real shame that Hamer have gone, and I could totally believe that its because of poor management on the behalf of Fender or Kaman. But the idea that Fender acquired a profitable business purely to shut them down is just too far fetched. Thinking about it, in fact, perhaps the Kaman parent group sold the musical subsidiary to Fender precisely because it [i]wasn[/i]doing all that well? I was a bit bored, so I just checked out Kaman Corp.'s share price---plummeted in early 2009.

Edited January 3, 2013 by uncle psychosis

[RhysP]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1357240748' post='1919743']
Didn't they pull out of the rock/metal market in the 90's?
[/quote]

Yes they did, and Jol Dantzig absolutely refused to make any more guitars of the Chaparal/California/Diablo/Centura style even though plenty of people waved lots of money at him to do so. He took Hamer back to their core values & designs and they then started to produce the best guitars they ever made until they were taken over.

[BottomE]

I guess the analogy is the huge supermarket chains eating away at the specialist shops on the high street. Anyway i thank them for making this baby...

[peteb]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1357239460' post='1919716']
They only made "Super Strat" style guitars for a comparatively short period - the vast majority of their models are far more Gibson like in terms of construction methods.
[/quote]

Very true - was at a guitar show recently where someone had got together a few Gibbo style Hamers that were great guitars at a very reasonable price! The super strats that they were produced were among some of the best guitars I have ever picked up, could never work out why they went went out of fashion so drastically!

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1357244216' post='1919840']
Yes they did, and Jol Dantzig absolutely refused to make any more guitars of the Chaparal/California/Diablo/Centura style even though plenty of people waved lots of money at him to do so. He took Hamer back to their core values & designs and they then started to produce the best guitars they ever made until they were taken over.
[/quote]

Possibly the reason for the start of their demise??

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1357255218' post='1920094']




Possibly the reason for the start of their demise??
[/quote]

i'm guessing the rock/metal market for guitars is the biggest and therefore the most lucrative?

[12stringbassist]

I think Hamer's desirability suffered when they brought out the budget non-USA guitars.

These two are not for sale!

Edited January 4, 2013 by 12stringbassist

[RhysP]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1357300733' post='1920542']
i'm guessing the rock/metal market for guitars is the biggest and therefore the most lucrative?
[/quote]
The thing is though is that the Rock/Metal market covers a lot of sub genres, and and the Gibson style Hamers are used a hell of a lot by what get termed "Classic Rock" bands, people like Styx, Molly Hatchet, Judas Priest and many others.
The reason they stopped making "Super Strat" type guitars is that pretty much every other maker did too as the market for them completely dried up as people went back to using Les Pauls & stuff like that. Jol Dantzig wouldn't have been stupid enough to stop making them if there was still a market for them.

[quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1357324376' post='1921152']
I think Hamer's desirability suffered when they brought out the budget non-USA guitars.
[/quote]

Now THIS I do agree with. It harmed Hamer in the same way it harmed BC Rich & Dean, who were also making superb hand built guitars in the late 70's and 80's.
There are a whole generation of people out there who have no idea just how superb these guitar makers were & just associate them with funny shaped cheap crap, which is such a shame.
As much as I love Hamers the very best guitar I have ever played was an early 80's blueburst Dean Cadillac - absolute perfection.

[quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1357324376' post='1921152']
These two are not for sale!




[/quote]

That red 12ver is a stunner!
I used to have a Chapparal 12ver just like that one, should never have sold it, but the money did go towards funding a 1995 Hamer USA Standard which was just awesome!

[BottomE]

[mc2]

WOW....a TON of misinformation here.

1) Fender bought Kaman mainly for its distribution network. Hamer, Ovation, etc. were just part of its brands.

2) Hamer is on "hiatus," with all the Hamer/Ovation builders still working at the same actory in CT. Fender had them doing double-duty building Guilds for them since they took over.

3) Fender, like Gibson and many other companies in the MI buisiness are hurting from the long recession and weak US/global markets. In restructuring to stay afloat, apparently they shifted the Hamer builders onto Guilds virtually full-time for now (once they have finished up the back-order of custom Hamers.)

4) Since Fender took over, Hamer became a "custom order only" brand and had returned to building virtually any style custom order...as was Hamer's rep in it's 1980s-early 90s reputation. In the last year they had done quite a few amazing builds, such as Firebirds/Thunderbirds. revived some of it's classic metal/shredders like Californians, Virtuosos, Chaparalls, SSII's and Watsons and even made an actual mythical Thunderbolt.

[url="http://hamerworkshop.wordpress.com/"]http://hamerworkshop.wordpress.com/[/url]

5) Since Fender now owns the Hamer brand...and Hamer started out repairing vintage Gibsons and has a looooong relationship with Gibson...and is the only brand that has been able to build several Gibson-ish models (except of better quality) and NOT be sued up the wazoo by Gibson for trademark infringement (as Gibson is well known for)......do you think Fender would be stupid enough to kill the one brand allowed to copy its biggest competitor's classic body styles? Hamer's Monaco dances circles around Gibson Les pauls; Hamer's Firebird/Tbird/V builds surpass Gibson Custom Shop versions; Hamer's Tele bulds rival or surpass the best Fender Custom Shop builds...plus it has a good number of it's own original designs from 30+ years that it is again building. IMO...the real value of Hamer to Fender is that it is Fender's "trojan horse" inside of Gibson.

6) Hamer was not put on "hiatus" for lack of orders. They gave ZERO notice that they would not be taking further custom orders and I hear turned down enough new order to have backed them up for a good part of 2013. They are also still doing Hamer warranty work and repairs. They are not liquidating parts, etc. Femder just decided it needed to push Guilds in this down market, rather than $3500-10,000 custom Hamers and shifted the crew onto that.

Gibson, on the other hand, has been scrambling the same way and also has been cutting custom orders and cutting worker hours, ending endorsement deals, etc.

7) A large part of Fender's and Gibson's business is through Guitar Center, which is overburdoned by huge debt...plus other dealrs who are struggling after the last few years of bad economy and possibly more, with increased U.S. taxes and new government imposed expenses. So, I guess we shuld all hope things get better, economically, or else the entire MI industry could implode.

So, while Hamer is officially on "hiatus" as of mid-Dec 2012, it is still building custom back-orders with word to be ready to re-up on short notice, if Fender gives the word. But for now, they are all also building Guilds. etc. for Fender.
....which also brings up another interesting point. Wouldn't this seem like a GREAT time to buy a U.S.-made Guild, if you know that the guys who build the U.S. custom Hamers and Ovations are building them?

8) BTW....The long-awaited definitive book on the history of Hamer Guitars is actually FINALLY coming out in a couple of months!!! I think that will also be a bit of a catalyst to re-spark interest in Hamers. I shot some of the photos

[url="http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschiffer/book_template.php?isbn=9780764343520"]http://www.schifferb...n=9780764343520[/url]

Edited January 17, 2013 by mc2

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='mc2' timestamp='1358413134' post='1938568']

8) BTW....The long-awaited definitive book on the history of Hamer Guitars is actually FINALLY coming out in a couple of months!!! I think that will also be a bit of a catalyst to re-spark interest in Hamers. I shot some of the photos

[url="http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschiffer/book_template.php?isbn=9780764343520"]http://www.schifferb...n=9780764343520[/url]
[/quote]

is that "Serial Steve"?

[neepheid]

[quote name='mc2' timestamp='1358413134' post='1938568']
WOW....a TON of misinformation here.
[/quote]

Yes, and your opinions being presented as fact isn't helping.

[NancyJohnson]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1358505961' post='1940345']
Yes, and your opinions being presented as fact isn't helping.
[/quote]

Well said.

[MacDaddy]

My Blitz Bass and Chaparral guitar.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1358505961' post='1940345']
Yes, and your opinions being presented as fact isn't helping.
[/quote]
[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1359140547' post='1950720']
Well said.
[/quote]

AFAICS, MC2's post contained any number of assertions regarding events, dates, etc.,but I didn't see much of what I'd call 'opinion' beyond what I took to be a general 'Hamers are good' thing. Which seemed to go along with the general tenor of the thread

If he's got some of his facts wrong, wouldn't it be better to address the the specifics?

[NancyJohnson]

Joel
OK, here goes. (For the record, I am a little hungover, so I may wander a bit.)

1) I'd never thought Fender would have bought a company for their distribution network. Really? I've been dipping in and out of guitar stores since the early-80s and if there's one brand that's synonymous by it's unanimity, it has to be Fender. Never struck me that they needed distribution, I thought they sold like hot cakes.

2) Hiatus or otherwise, the information I posted was sent to me from the guys at the Hamer Fan Network, who to a degree have effectively become the Hamer mouthpiece. The Workshop blog hasn't been updated in nearly a year. I would say one thing here, who puts a company into hiatus and then relaunches it at some future date?

3) Recession. Psst. Guitars are still selling aren't they? And what would you rather rock out with? A Guild semi or a Hamer solid? (OK...don't answer that.)

4/5) These are statements of fact/conjecture.

6) I'm running a business selling very expensive sprockets and I have a full order book into 2013/14. I've been selling these sprockets for a few years now, quite successfully it has to be said, but now I'm going to start manufacturing cheaper sprockets. I know, to meet demand, I'll close down my expensive sprocket business, cancel the back orders and move all my machinists over to make my cheaper product. That's some sound business sense, for sure. Now I don't have access to Fender's balance sheet, so I don't know how much sales for Hamer and Guild account for, so don't feel qualified to comment on whether this is a sound decision or not.

7) Other guitar stores are available and there's a big old world beyond those US borders. I work in the jewellery business and we sell into many businesses that are most probably overburdened by debt, but as a credit manager, I can control what goes out and what happens when we don't get paid. There are many channels of distribution globally. I think of Fender being a little like Kiss. Clearly not really interested in what went on outside of the US until things started going down the toilet at which point it became time to concentrate on the markets in Europe, South America, Australasia, Far East. (I'm curious, do the Americans use the term Far East, because in actuality it's probably Close West. Sorry, went off topic there.)

8) This, my friend, is a shameless plug. I will be visiting Amazon imminently.

If there's one good thing about the Hamer brand, it's that there's a good 30 years of production still out there (aside from the hundreds Nikki Sixx destroyed), so they're still readily available and will still be even when I'm dust.

Oh, and in closing, please desist in the overuse of unnecessary "inverted commas". You're a journalist/magazine editor, are you not? Tut tut!!

Message ends.
P

Edited January 27, 2013 by NancyJohnson

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1359207896' post='1951565']
My Blitz Bass and Chaparral guitar.
[/quote]

Rock-Mungus! [size=4] [/size]