Dilemma (4x8 Ashdown Mini, Genz Benz 2x10, Other?)

[Ultima2876]

I've just recently acquired an Ashdown ABM500 head on an excellent deal, but I don't have a cab for it! My band is hopefully due to start gigging in January. We play a kind of psychadelic bluesy post-pop. The drummer is fairly loud and the guitarist plays through a Fender Twin but keeps the volume dialled back some. I'm a fairly scrawny guy and I'm on a bit of a budget (for now), and I really can't decide what to do.

I want to be able to be heard, first priority. Second priority is size, followed by weight - I don't want a single big 4x10 - I'd rather keep things modular and smaller so I can make multiple trips to shift stuff.

Options are as follows

-Original plan, get an Ashdown Mini 15 then later get a Mini 48 to complement it. Unfortunately, I can't find any 15s - I do have a Mini 48 available for £175 posted. So I'd have to reverse that; get the Mini 48 now, then hope I can find a 15 later (or something else that goes well with it). However I also play 5 string (very rarely use my B string though, I'd say in one or two songs) and I've heard that the Mini 48 on its own isn't very good... if I don't find a 15 or something that goes with it for a while I might be stuck with something sub-par... The Mini 48 weighs in at 30kg according to the spec here http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?ID=61, but is quite small in terms of form factor, and 600 watts @ 8 ohms. I also love the way it looks! Frequency response is a little worrying, bottom being 75hz, which seems a lot higher than any other cab I've seen...

-Plan B - gak.co.uk has those Genz Benz 2x10s for £200 referenced in this topic: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/192121-best-cab-around-l200/"]http://basschat.co.u...ab-around-l200/[/url] It's about the same weight as the Mini 48. Bonus; this would be a brand new cab. But I've heard that 2x10s might not be loud enough to keep up with the drummer... it's 300 watts, and honestly after all my reading I'm so confused and dazzled about what I should be aiming at here. Some people say they can gig a 1x12, others say they need 4 4x10s with 2 amps and PA support etc etc etc - I'm not sure of anything any more!

-Option C; I could potentially try and stretch my budget and go for something else, maxing out at about £250... but I'd rather not. However, if there's anything that would absolutely blow the other two ideas out of the water at this price range then I'm all ears!

I've decided instead of spending any more hours reading thousands of conflicting options, making up my mind, then reading more only for my mind to be un-made again, I'd just ask here and see if anyone can help out. I've wasted nearly my whole weekend debating over all this =/

I've read amazingly gleaming recommendations about Barefaced cabs, but availability and price put them out of reach for me at the moment. However, they are pretty much the holy grail of what I want, and I love their aesthetics too. I'm hoping to eventually be able to get myself a pair of Barefaced Compacts, down the line

Anyway everyone, thanks for your help! I hope I didn't ramble too much!

Edited November 25, 2012 by Ultima2876

[Ultima2876]

For what it's worth, I've read very good things about the Genz Benz GB210T-XB - pretty much everyone gives them glowing reviews. Might be a good idea to pick up the GB210T-XB2 from GAK then get a second one later? It's a bulky option, but if it sounds good...

I won't be playing any gigs bigger than a large club for the foreseeable future, and if I ever do I'll be able to upsize my rig later.

EDIT: Blarg, just realised, the Genz Benz at GAK is 4 ohms... that would mean I can only use one of those cabs, correct?

Edited November 26, 2012 by Ultima2876

[Roland Rock]

The main differences between you and that other thread are the head and the band.
I won't comment on the TC's "half the watts it says on the tin" thing as I have no first hand experience of that head. What I do know, however, is that the ABM500 is a pretty loud beast, so it may not be a fair comparison. I'd have thought that the ABM through the GB2x10 would be well loud enough to sit nicely in your loud-but-not-bonkers-loud band.

[Ultima2876]

Yeah, that sounds about right - checking the manual for the ABM500, it's 575 watts @ 8 ohm or 1000 watts @ 4 ohm... so it's probably going to be putting out some decent volume into the GB cab.

I'm so tempted to hit the fire button on the GB cab... only thing stopping me (pretty much) is that it's 4 ohm... but that could maybe be a good thing. Stops me from being tempted to buy extra cabs for the hell of it in future - provided its loud enough and sounds good, it could be all I need. But then, if I ever upgrade, I don't really have any other equipment that I could use a 4 ohm cab with, whereas I could repurpose any 8 ohm cab to be used with one of my guitar amps.

Aaaaah, decisions decisions Thanks for your input!

[Musicman20]

A 2x10 will only go so far. Firing all those watts at one will probably lead to failure.

I'd say your best bet is a flexible 2 x 2x10 (8 ohms).

[RandomBass]

[quote name='Ultima2876' timestamp='1353912309' post='1879564']
Yeah, that sounds about right - checking the manual for the ABM500, it's 575 watts @ 8 ohm or 1000 watts @ 4 ohm... so it's probably going to be putting out some decent volume into the GB cab.

I'm so tempted to hit the fire button on the GB cab... only thing stopping me (pretty much) is that it's 4 ohm... but that could maybe be a good thing. Stops me from being tempted to buy extra cabs for the hell of it in future - provided its loud enough and sounds good, it could be all I need. But then, if I ever upgrade, I don't really have any other equipment that I could use a 4 ohm cab with, whereas I could repurpose any 8 ohm cab to be used with one of my guitar amps.

Aaaaah, decisions decisions Thanks for your input!
[/quote]

I think you will find the ABM500 is rated at 575 Watts into 4 ohms, and probably about 360ish into 8 Ohm. The 'peak' value of 1000 Watts refers to a short-term max that the amp can deliver, not a continuous rating.

I also have an ABM - it will be more than enough with a few suitable speakers attached to it...

Watts aren't everything when it comes to volume of course - cab design, speaker area, speaker displacement etc, and there are plenty of wiser people on here who will be advise more accurately than me.

[xgsjx]

I think you've got the wrong info on the ABM500. I'm sure it's 575w at 4Ω, though I might be wrong.
I wouldn't go for a 4Ω cab. If it's not loud enough, you're stuck. I wouldn't go for the Ashdown minis either.

He above say's what I was going to. Great minds n' all that!

Edited November 26, 2012 by xgsjx

[Mudpup]

That Genz cab is 4 ohms - you cant add another cab to the ABM if it doesnt have enough ooomph for you.

How about a Gallien Krueger 212MBE from Thomanns for £200?

[RandomBass]

What Mudpup says - those MBE212 (8 ohm) at 200 notes from Thomann are an amazing deal. Two of them gives you a very lightweight vertical 4 x 12. Awesome, methinks.

[Lozz196]

Plus a 212 should have more "oomph" to it, as more surface area. I know there may/will be a lot of techie stuff aimed at this statement, but we`re talking within a budget, so an 8ohm 212 that - on the spec - handles 600 watts, with 360 watts or so going into it should be plenty enough.

[stingrayPete1977]

Yep I'd go for a 2x12 or a pair of 2x10s failing that get a 1x12 then add another one later, single 12 will cover many gigs and 2 will do almost all.

[Ultima2876]

Wow, those do look excellent and fit the bill very well. Being a bit of a bass n00b (yes, I am originally a guitard that has 'seen the light'...), I don't know much about Gallien Kreuger - are they good cabs for reliability and sound?

I really like that they're only 15.4kg. I do think I'd have preferred side-carry handles, but at 15.4kg I'm not sure if that matters. I'm gonna go and lift some amps and compare the weight!

It might be perfect... thanks for all your help guys, you all rock!

[garythebass]

I've got an abm mini 1x15 lying around.

Never got around to putting on the for sales section.

If you prefer to stick with your Plan A, feel free to drop me a pm and I can dig it out and send you some pictures.

[Ultima2876]

Yeah, I've got someone else who has a Mini 15 too that he wants to sell. It's between the GK 212MBE and the Minis then... I really don't know what to do. I've heard that in combination the Mini 15 and Mini 48 sound great, and I absolutely love the way they look (not that it matters that much). I also like that they're side-handled. But, the GK is a lot lighter (50% lighter than the Mini 48, 20% lighter than the Mini 15) and probably more flexible - I could play smaller gigs with just one cab, which means a lot less back strain and less trips to the car.

I'm gonna have to think it over. If anyone has opinions then chime in

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1353918595' post='1879594']
I wouldn't go for the Ashdown minis either.
[/quote]

Any particular reason or are you just not a fan? I'd love to hear more if you have time!

[Musicman20]

For £200 I'd easy get the GK cab. It's on offer as they have a revised version coming out.

[stingrayPete1977]

Both of the 15, s would have some poke from that big abm head! No treble but that's ashdown for 'ya

[Ultima2876]

Yep, I'm pretty much in love with the Ashdown sound. In fact, upon hearing my friends Ashdown ABM rig a while ago I was pretty much an 'ashdown' guy from the go; I've never heard the GK cab first hand so that's another leaning point towards the Minis.

The main point of contention is the weight and carting two cabs everywhere, but I don't know if that's too much of a big deal for me. There's also kind of mixed opinions on the Minis, but I think if I look hard enough I'd probably find the same thing with the GK.

[xgsjx]

The main reason I wouldn't go for the Mini 4x8 is that you could get a 2x10 that would outperform it in every way for similar money.
If you do go for it, the matching cab isn't the 15, it's another 4x8.

I'd try a few different cabs from different manufacturers (inc the Ashdown 2x10) & use your ears.

[Ultima2876]

I hear ya; if you don't mind my asking, why not a Mini 15 as the cab with a 48? I thought that they were designed to work together. I would have thought that two Mini 48s would have a weak low end due to their frequency response not covering < 70 hz? Or is there some physics wizardry that gets around that?

Also, the 1000watt thing was from the "get manual" link on ashdown's site - [url="http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/detail.asp?ID=6."]http://www.ashdownmu...etail.asp?ID=6.[/url] In the ABM section it says;

"Speaker Outputs Minimum impedance 4 Ohms
Output Power 1000watts RMS into 4 ohms. / 2000watts RMS into 4 ohms."

I think the 2000watts RMS into 4 ohms part is for the 575/575 dual ABM amp. I figured it'd kind of make sense for 575w @ 8 ohms to be around 1000w @ 4 ohms - but I am really a beginner in all this so I'm not really sure if that's the correct way to work it all out!

Either way the GK cab can handle it at 8ohms, and two of them would cope at 4 ohms, so yeah...

Edited November 26, 2012 by Ultima2876

[RandomBass]

It sounds like these ratings refer to the new ABM1000 and ABM2000 amps which have only just been released. The ABM500 is definitely 575 Watts into 4 Ohms, and probably something like 360 or so into 8 Ohms. So one or two MBE212 will be just fine.

Edit: Just had a look at the download you linked, and yes it refers to the ABM1000/2000 amps.

Edited November 26, 2012 by RandomBass

[Ultima2876]

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1353950974' post='1880159']
It sounds like these ratings refer to the new ABM1000 and ABM2000 amps which have only just been released. The ABM500 is definitely 575 Watts into 4 Ohms, and probably something like 360 or so into 8 Ohms. So one or two MBE212 will be just fine.
[/quote]

Aha! That would make a lot of sense! Thanks

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Ultima2876' timestamp='1353949793' post='1880136']
I hear ya; if you don't mind my asking, why not a Mini 15 as the cab with a 48? I thought that they were designed to work together. I would have thought that two Mini 48s would have a weak low end due to their frequency response not covering < 70 hz? Or is there some physics wizardry that gets around that?
[/quote]

One of the reasons that I wouldn't choose the Ashdowns.
The best thing is to find a cab you like & add another identical one if you need more volume.
If you do a search on here, you'll find quite a few threads on the perils of mixing driver sizes. It's not always a bad thing, just unpredictable.

[bumnote]

I used to have a mini 15 and a mini 4x8. I was very very tempted to have 2 4x8s as the 4x8 sounded great with either an ashdown abm 300 or and eden traveller. The 30kgs per cab is the only thing that stopped me
I was not impressed with the 15, and it wont develop anywhere near 300 watts.

[Ultima2876]

I've gotta say, after having been an internet power user for about 11 years and taking part in many many communities online... this has got to be one of the most helpful I've ever stumbled across. You guys are fantastic and your input is all really appreciated.

I'm seriously getting the impression here that the GK 212MBE is the way to go. Now I need to see if I can find a way to try one... unfortunately I'm based in the UK so finding a dealer that has them for trial might be a difficult option. That said, I've had a search around and can't really find a bad word about them...

I'm just gonna finish talking to the people who have potential Ashdown Mini deals for me to see a final comparison on prices, but I'm now leaning pretty heavily towards the GK cab.

Thanks again!

[RandomBass]

I think the MBE212 would be the appropriate route to take. Not sure what your funds are, but two of them (8Ohm each) would be an awesome vertical 4x12 with the ABM500. And just use one cab for the smaller pub events no problem.