Coilte Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1343668149' post='1753429'] Hilarious. I think this is where many musicians don't give their bands a chance, they have an over-inflated sense of the worth and uniqueness of their own music, and a lack of understanding of what audiences usually want in their genre. [/quote] All I am simply saying is that it is possible to enjoy live music, without the aid of visual stimulants. Believe me, I know, because I do it regularly. There is a small pub near me, which runs regular gigs. One band I particularly like is a "Steely Dan" tribute band. The band dress in normal everyday clothes, there is no "show" as such, but I always come away on a high, purely from seeing/hearing good music performed well. I respect the fact that you dont see things this way, but at least acknowledge that people might have a different opinion to your own. Edited July 30, 2012 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1343670266' post='1753470'] All I am simply saying is that it is possible to enjoy live music, without the aid of visual stimulants. [/quote] Of course it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1343668149' post='1753429'] Hilarious. I think this is where many musicians don't give their bands a chance, they have an over-inflated sense of the worth and uniqueness of their own music, and a lack of understanding of what audiences usually want in their genre. [/quote] And you think dressing up will fix that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1343669810' post='1753459'] We should all dress up to give the deaf people something to enjoy. [/quote] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Sorry fella, that does not work and you know it [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1343670672' post='1753479'] And you think dressing up will fix that? [/quote] Can you imagine Gaga without the personality, the show and the image? Popular music is much more than just the music. You may find many of the popular bands you like had to do something beyond the music in their early years to connect with the audience. From cover art, clothes, stage show, sloganeering lyrics, etc. You have to do SOMETHING to get the audience on your side, to get them to pay attention long enough that the music starts to sink in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1343670498' post='1753475'] Of course it is. [/quote] Well thank you kind sir !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1343671057' post='1753494'] Well thank you kind sir !! [/quote] It's also possible to survive having a hot poker stuck up yer arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think it is worth mentioning again, that image depends on the type of music and the type of gig. Some people seem to be under the illusion that ALL music needs a visual stimulant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1343671303' post='1753498'] I think it is worth mentioning again, that image depends on the type of music and the type of gig. Some people seem to be under the illusion that ALL music needs a visual stimulant. [/quote] We're not talking orchestral or jazz are we? I thought this was about contemporary popular music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1343671558' post='1753505'] I thought this was about contemporary popular music. [/quote] Correct. Though even under that umbrella name, there can be a lot of variation (think "Boyzone" or maybe Paul Simon). Slightly different emphasis on image there, with the latter never really depending on "image", even in his hayday. He relied on his music to carry the day. Still does. Edited July 30, 2012 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 What seems to be coming through here is that some people enjoy a visual element to a live performance, and that others don't. So why would anyone want to alienate part of their audience? It was mentioned that the discussion was supposed to be about dressing up to the nines, and that plenty of artists don't do that. But image needn't be about dressing up - plenty of successful artists don't. Image [i]is[/i] about presenting a consistent and consonant face however. Folk, for instance, almost never involves dressing up and to do so would actually be a turn off for many. For many folk is about keeping it real and being an authentic unmediated representation of creative expression (and hence of life). But the image is there nonetheless. You can break the rules as much as you like, but if you're trying to persuade an audience that you're an authentic roots band you might face an uphill struggle if you go out wearing spandex catsuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1343667252' post='1753417'] +1 . Also, it begs the question, is the music not able to stand on it's own merit, without needing a visula stimulant ? [/quote] As I keep saying, the visuals are not there to make up for some supposed musical short-coming. The music is already awesome. The visuals make it even more awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1343673174' post='1753538'] You can break the rules as much as you like, but if you're trying to persuade an audience that you're an authentic roots band you might face an uphill struggle if you go out wearing spandex catsuits. [/quote] But doing something like not dressing as you are expected to might be what you need to give your band the edge over all the other authentic roots bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1343674177' post='1753565'] But doing something like not dressing as you are expected to might be what you need to give your band the edge over all the other authentic roots bands. [/quote] You won't get any argument from me there - as I said, you can break the rules all you like. But it does require some thought as to the image you're projecting, whether that be jeans and a T shirt or something more outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1343673174' post='1753538'] What seems to be coming through here is that some people enjoy a visual element to a live performance, and that others don't. So why would anyone want to alienate part of their audience? It was mentioned that the discussion was supposed to be about dressing up to the nines, and that plenty of artists don't do that. But image needn't be about dressing up - plenty of successful artists don't. Image [i]is[/i] about presenting a consistent and consonant face however.[b] Folk, for instance, almost never involves dressing up and to do so would actually be a turn off for many. [/b]For many folk is about keeping it real and being an authentic unmediated representation of creative expression (and hence of life). But the image is there nonetheless. You can break the rules as much as you like, but if you're trying to persuade an audience that you're an authentic roots band you might face an uphill struggle if you go out wearing spandex catsuits. [/quote] And folk sold little, except for a few lauded artists. Then 'nu-folk' came along, played by frail looking boys with A Levels and sea-dog facial accoutrement, moths escaping jumpers with more lines than their songs, winsome lasses with dandelions sprouting from lips tinted rouge with handpicked raspberry stains, straw in their hair from imagined summery hay-barn ruttery, lilting voices and entry-level Taylors enticing the moths from your wallets with stories about living in caves in west London ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1343673854' post='1753560'] The music is already awesome. [/quote] Not always the case unfortunately. Again, I give the example of Boyzone, Spicegirls etc. Do you think they would have got as far as they did on their music alone ? Edited July 30, 2012 by Coilte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I did a gig with a band once and this was their approach. Few days before the gig someone went to a charity shop with a tenner and bought as much cheap sh*t as they could. It was placed inside a bin liner and taken to the gig. At the gig the band got undressed and then in a free for all grabbed from the bin liner anything they wanted. The weakest member (guitarist obviously) got left with the dregs They looked ridiculous for about 2 minutes and then i kind of got used to it. Edited July 30, 2012 by BottomE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1343674853' post='1753583'] And folk sold little, except for a few lauded artists. Then 'nu-folk' came along, played by frail looking boys with A Levels and sea-dog facial accoutrement, moths escaping jumpers with more lines than their songs, winsome lasses with dandelions sprouting from lips tinted rouge with handpicked raspberry stains, straw in their hair from imagined summery hay-barn ruttery, lilting voices and entry-level Taylors enticing the moths from your wallets with stories about living in caves in west London ... [/quote] Yep. I had anti-folk very much in mind when I wrote that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Great bands (or solo artists) are great whatever they look like or whatever clothes they wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1343677716' post='1753631'] Great bands (or solo artists) are great whatever they look like or whatever clothes they wear. [/quote] But great bands who've thought about their image are even greater. Don't forget that most of your favourite bands who appear not to have an image, have very carefully and deliberately cultivated than "non-image". Which is an image in itself! Edited July 30, 2012 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1343677716' post='1753631'] Great bands (or solo artists) are great whatever they look like or whatever clothes they wear. [/quote] Any artists in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1343661105' post='1753275'] C'mon, lets get real here !! No artist worth his/her salt is going to let this happen. If they did, there would be no audience, let alone a disappointed one. Even in the most grotty gig venues, the stage is never in darkness, at least not in my experience. What I assumed we were talking about here, was artists dressing up to the nines and putting on a glitzy show. There is a difference between this, and an artist performing his music and interacting with his audience, either through the music itself, or through a bit of banter etc. [/quote] The original post was looking at how boring bass players often are. I've worked very hard with my current band to get the guitarist/singer to drop his music and engage with the audience. On most tunes He stands rooted to the spot behind his mic staring down at his music. Musically we're tight and people listen but always get a much better reception to the tunes he plays without his music even though he makes more mistakes. That tells me people want to be entertained. The original video is satirical. Purposefully poking fun and exaggerating the boring bass player into a wild character to make a (very good IMO) point. You don't always need loads of flashing lights and jumping about but what you do need to do is engage your audience. Just a couple of coloured spot lights, a bit of thought on what you are wearing, learn to play without the music, smile and move about a bit is often all it takes. Edited July 30, 2012 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1343671126' post='1753496'] It's also possible to survive having a hot poker stuck up yer arse [/quote] You're not doing it right. Strangely,there is no red hot poker up the bum smiley.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1343671558' post='1753505'] We're not talking orchestral or jazz are we? I thought this was about contemporary popular music. [/quote] Try doing them other two without a suit and tie [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1343673174' post='1753538'] Folk, for instance, almost never involves dressing up and to do so would actually be a turn off for many. For many folk is about keeping it real and being an authentic unmediated representation of creative expression (and hence of life). But the image is there nonetheless [/quote] yep, try doing folk without beard, pipe, lumpy jumper/checked shirt, or flouncy dress if you're a chick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1343677928' post='1753635'] But great bands who've thought about their image are even greater. Don't forget that most of your favourite bands who appear not to have an image, have very carefully and deliberately cultivated than "non-image". Which is an image in itself! [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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