xilddx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331641679' post='1576310'] I have to say, the way you explain the set-up...it sounds a shambles and a guessimate. I am talking about the pattern going awol and you think that is ok....??? You can all go and get lost in the music..and then pull it all together when you want to get back in to the main pattern. Reading your posts, I think this would be a recipe for a disaster. but then I also get the impression that happy free-for-all train wreck suits the concept. If it happens, then ok...to be expected, if it doesn't, we have a chance of pulling of something really interesting...for the band..!! Why would I get lost in a track..? I am counting to a set pattern..I am not making things up as we go...and hoping it will be alright if we all wave and look out for each other. The way you seem to work...not sure you have a clue, tbh. which is ok if it works..upto a point. But when you have to put yourself into a mainstream situation, I doubt you'll have the tools and will be out of your depth pretty quickly....if you ignore or can't follow simple basics...or rules, if you prefer. Sorry if this offends...but jeeeeeeeeeezus..!! [/quote] Oh, I see you edited this post quite substantially. I'm not at all offended. Basics, or complicated don't matter to me, I don't even really think of music in those terms. I just think of MUSIC. If following the kick works for the song, that's what I do. Same for playing on the snare, or playing 7s over 4/4. If it works it works. Singers don't lock in with the kick drum do they, or any other instrument, nor does the bass have to. Nor does the kick drum have to stay on the back beat. I have to admit, I don't really have any idea about what you are trying to say anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1331631632' post='1576015'] With reference to being a bad player or not I have always considered myself below average simply because I don’t seem to be able to “ lock” with the drummer And just to be clear here I’m talking about playing classic rock covers – no polyrhymic nonsense . I expect the theory is that the drummer uses the bass drum to count the bars and then uses all the other drums and cymbals to add texture to that rhythm, so it makes perfect sense to say that the bass player should “ lock” in with the bass drum as it means that you and the drummer are both counting the one and therefore playing in time. BUT almost every drummer I’ve played with ( between 20 – 30 and counting !) does not seem to use the bass drum in that way . there is a lot of rests and playing off the offbeat with the bass drum and that confuses me as I don’t know whether I should follow that or not. [b]SO what I have done is a compromise and play to where the kick should be which tends to mean that I play off the snare and hi hat more than the bass drum.[/b] I genuinely don’t know if this is correct or not but as I say I’ve always felt that I’m cheating and not really locking at all. Its just occoured to me that the drummer is usually the band member that I bond with less socially as well ( in very general terms ) I wonder is these two things are linked as well ! [/quote] This mirrors my experience to a great extent. Many drummers I have played with are inconsistent with where they play the bass drum. I used to try and listen to the bass drum pattern so I could follow it only to find that it changed from bar to bar. These days I don't try to lock in with the bass drum so much as lock in with the whole kit. one thing I like to do is 'bounce' off the snare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1331637954' post='1576189'] Townes1992 - do you play in a band? [/quote] Hey BigRedX, no i'm not in a band, me and my friend used to jam together a fair bit a couple years back. I practiced a little with a band quite recently but it wasn't the kind of thing i was into playing to be honest. Willing musicians seem harder to come by nowadays, i run into a lot of people who play but they don't really want to take it any further than just practicing by themselves. Most bands i know of now seems to do an awful lot of covers, which is cool, but they're covers of bands and music i have no appetite for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331649554' post='1576532'] Hey BigRedX, no i'm not in a band, me and my friend used to jam together a fair bit a couple years back. I practiced a little with a band quite recently but it wasn't the kind of thing i was into playing to be honest. Willing musicians seem harder to come by nowadays, i run into a lot of people who play but they don't really want to take it any further than just practicing by themselves. Most bands i know of now seems to do an awful lot of covers, which is cool, but they're covers of bands and music i have no appetite for. [/quote] When you play at home, do you practice with a click or a drum loop, or to music or something giving you a beat or rhythm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331649750' post='1576536'] When you play at home, do you practice with a click or a drum loop, or to music or something giving you a beat or rhythm? [/quote] I used to a little, i dont do that so much anymore, do you think it would benefit? Cheers Edited March 13, 2012 by Townes1992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331650047' post='1576542'] I used to a little, i dont do that so much anymore, do you think it would benfit? Cheers [/quote] Playing along to music...yes. That's an important part of learning. Playing with a metronome.....some will say yes,others like me will say probably not. If you want to use a metronome,I'll recommend setting it so that it clicks on 2 and 4 to substitute a snare drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331650047' post='1576542'] I used to a little, i dont do that so much anymore, do you think it would benefit? Cheers [/quote] Yes, enormously. Completely, incontrovertably. Set up a loop or two on your computer and play along. Even better, record yourself and listen back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Okay i will give that a shot, thanks for the advice. I have recorded myself for a few years now and listened back, and as was mentioned earlier, i've recently began singing a run of notes into a phone or something and record then trying to play it back. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='spike' timestamp='1331646587' post='1576469'] This mirrors my experience to a great extent. Many drummers I have played with are inconsistent with where they play the bass drum. I used to try and listen to the bass drum pattern so I could follow it only to find that it changed from bar to bar. .....................[/quote] Well, they shouldn't be. Putting it all over the place destroys any attempt of a groove. There is a world of difference to doing it on purpose and not knowing they are doing it..or being oblivious to it. Mostly, this is just plain poor drumming as is not being able to hold time.. and you should pull them up on it. Then at least you may get an explaination of what they are trying to do or achieve..which will, 9 times out orf 10, leads to blank looks ..as in..didn't know I was doing that...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331389090' post='1572215'] Hey guys this is quite simple & straight-forward really, ever get the feeling you're a terrible musician haha? For the 4 years i have been playing bass, i do get the feeling I am just not as good as i should be. Despite the practicing of new techniques etc, I have little confidence in myself when it comes how good i believe myself to be, whether its a lack of versatility or crispness. I was just wondering, does anybody else get this same feeling? It can be rather demoralising!! Cheers [/quote] Happens a lot personally speaking. It can be viewed as a bad trait but I prefer to look at as a willingness to constantly improve. The thing about practice is that it will pay off in the long run. Try not to focus so much on what you can't do and practice what you feel you are best at, this can be a means to developing your own style. (Obviously you should still practice what you find difficult, otherwise practicing would be a waste of time) If I were you I'd try and find a guitarist and drummer who just want to expand their abilities a little by practicing as a group. Its amazing what you can learn from playing with others. Things like versatillity etc will come eventually as you expose yourself (giggidy) to other genres and play with other musicians. Dont get too hung up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Cheers man, yeah i have looked around, but i will continue the search ! you'd think being at university would open doors, seemingly not haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331652119' post='1576585'] Cheers man, yeah i have looked around, but i will continue the search ! you'd think being at university would open doors, seemingly not haha! [/quote] Ya would wouldn't ya. Going back to Uni has closed most of mine........ Try some local jam sessions or maybe organise one in your local on a quiet night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Mog' timestamp='1331651869' post='1576580'] . Try not to focus so much on what you can't do and practice what you feel you are best at, this can be a means to developing your own style. (Obviously you should still practice what you find difficult, otherwise practicing would be a waste of time) [/quote] Be careful though...if you spend a lot of time practising what you feel you are best at,it becomes very easy to become stagnant and not see any particular improvement because you are not pushing yourself and learning anything new. Sure,you play what you enjoy but improvement comes from practising new material that is currently beyond you,either musically,technically,harmonically or theoretically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassdriver Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331650682' post='1576557'] Yes, enormously. Completely, incontrovertably. Set up a loop or two on your computer and play along. Even better, record yourself and listen back. [/quote] Couldn't agree more. Also, if you can, getting to play with more accomplished musos will be a big help and recording yourself and listening back to your playing, being critical but in a constructive way like 'oh, ok i can hear how I could play that bit better', etc. All of this is so important. Edited typo Edited March 13, 2012 by Bassdriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Mog' timestamp='1331651869' post='1576580'] Happens a lot personally speaking. It can be viewed as a bad trait but I prefer to look at as a willingness to constantly improve. The thing about practice is that it will pay off in the long run. Try not to focus so much on what you can't do and practice what you feel you are best at, this can be a means to developing your own style. (Obviously you should still practice what you find difficult, otherwise practicing would be a waste of time) If I were you I'd try and find a guitarist and drummer who just want to expand their abilities a little by practicing as a group. Its amazing what you can learn from playing with others. Things like versatillity etc will come eventually as you expose yourself (giggidy) to other genres and play with other musicians. Dont get too hung up on it. [/quote] @ Townes This is good advice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Mog' timestamp='1331652343' post='1576591'] Ya would wouldn't ya. Going back to Uni has closed most of mine........ [/quote] Sorry to hear, its a funny old bubble university isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331652437' post='1576595'] Be careful though...if you spend a lot of time practising what you feel you are best at,it becomes very easy to become stagnant and not see any particular improvement because you are not pushing yourself and learning anything new. Sure,you play what you enjoy but improvement comes from practising new material that is currently beyond you,either musically,technically,harmonically or theoretically. [/quote] Exactly what I should have said myself. Cheers Doddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think I will begin by looking at scales, musical theory has always escaped me, maybe one of the downfalls of being self taught. And i have fell into those stagnant waters before, for too long a time! Although i do agree that playing what you can play and enjoy to play is vital, otherwise it seems like a chore, need to put that hard work into the fun part right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331649554' post='1576532'] Hey BigRedX, no i'm not in a band, me and my friend used to jam together a fair bit a couple years back. I practiced a little with a band quite recently but it wasn't the kind of thing i was into playing to be honest. Willing musicians seem harder to come by nowadays, i run into a lot of people who play but they don't really want to take it any further than just practicing by themselves. Most bands i know of now seems to do an awful lot of covers, which is cool, but they're covers of bands and music i have no appetite for. [/quote] IMO you really need to looking at joining or forming a band. When you're stuck at home with only playing along with your favourite songs as a frame of reference it's very easy to be over-critical about your (perceived lack of) ability. With 4 years of playing under your belt, unless your preferred genre is something like 70s prog rock, technical metal, or one of the less avant-garde types of jazz, you should be more than capable of holding down the bottom end in a band playing music that you like. I'm surprised that you don't seem to be able to find other like-minded musicians living somewhere like Birmingham. I have fairly strict rules about what kinds of music I'll play and live in Nottingham which is hardly a hot bed of musical opportunity and activity, but I've had no problem finding musicians to play with from the moment I was able to string a handful of chords together on my first guitar. A perceived lack of ability is never held me back - if I felt I was out of my musical depth but liked the music that was being played it only served as an incentive to improve. And that for me is the really important bit. IME an evening in a rehearsal room playing music you enjoy is worth at least a week of practicing by yourself in your bedroom. The bass is (mostly) an accompanying instrument. You need to get out there and accompany other musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331651587' post='1576572'] Well, they shouldn't be. Putting it all over the place destroys any attempt of a groove. There is a world of difference to doing it on purpose and not knowing they are doing it..or being oblivious to it. Mostly, this is just plain poor drumming as is not being able to hold time.. and you should pull them up on it. Then at least you may get an explaination of what they are trying to do or achieve..which will, 9 times out orf 10, leads to blank looks ..as in..didn't know I was doing that...!!! [/quote] I agree, and now I'm older and more experienced and generally play with more experienced drummers it doesn't happen nearly as much but it did teach me to lock in to the whole drum kit and not just the bass drum. I also think it's just as much the drummer's responsibility to lock in with the bass player rather than expect us to follow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 I know it sounds absurd that there aren't many people around to jam with but such is the way :/ . I have wondered that often, that there are things i may be missing out on because of my inexperience of playing with other musicians. Haha no my musical tastes dont stretch to technical metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Though I have tried my hand at metal and like genre's, speed is not on my side haha!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331654035' post='1576642'] Though I have tried my hand at metal and like genre's, speed is not on my side haha!! [/quote] I played in a metal band over the weekend. Very unsatisfactory, the audience had a very low level of personal hygiene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331653770' post='1576636'] I know it sounds absurd that there aren't many people around to jam with but such is the way :/ . I have wondered that often, that there are things i may be missing out on because of my inexperience of playing with other musicians. Haha no my musical tastes dont stretch to technical metal [/quote] So what sort of music do you want to be playing? Because I can't believe that you can't find others to play it with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I just knocked these two up to demonstrate the effect of bass strictly covering the kick, and playing around the kick. http://soundcloud.com/silddx/sets/on-kick-off-kick/ Edited March 13, 2012 by silddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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