peteb Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331669207' post='1576995'] I just knocked these two up to demonstrate the effect of bass strictly covering the kick, and playing around the kick. [url="http://soundcloud.com/silddx/sets/on-kick-off-kick/"]http://soundcloud.co...-kick-off-kick/[/url] [/quote] [color=#222222]Not quite sure what this tells us: after a quick listen I would say that the first example is simple but very tight and is probably what you would record under a vocal; the second track has a more developed bassline with some nice ideas but isn’t as tight (probably as you are trying not to follow the kick too closely)[/color] [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331641679' post='1576310'] I have to say, the way you explain the set-up...it sounds a shambles and a guessimate. I am talking about the pattern going awol and you think that is ok....??? You can all go and get lost in the music..and then pull it all together when you want to get back in to the main pattern. Reading your posts, I think this would be a recipe for a disaster. but then I also get the impression that happy free-for-all train wreck suits the concept. If it happens, then ok...to be expected, if it doesn't, we have a chance of pulling of something really interesting...for the band..!! Why would I get lost in a track..? I am counting to a set pattern..I am not making things up as we go...and hoping it will be alright if we all wave and look out for each other. The way you seem to work...not sure you have a clue, tbh. which is ok if it works..upto a point. But when you have to put yourself into a mainstream situation, I doubt you'll have the tools and will be out of your depth pretty quickly....if you ignore or can't follow simple basics...or rules, if you prefer. Sorry if this offends...but jeeeeeeeeeezus..!! [/quote] I can see what JTUK is getting at here, thru I suspect that you are playing with some pretty skilled players in a genre that perhaps does not depend on a the same type of groove that you might find in funk or rock and who can make it work Having said that, [b]if[/b] you take the approach that you have been talking about playing in a decent rock band then, brother, you ain’t gonna get the gig! I did quite a lot of gigs last year in a few different bands last year, playing everywhere from Bedford to the Orkneys. Some of the guys I was playing with have a track record and are pretty decent players. I like to think that I am in demand because of my immense charm, good looks and outstanding chops! However, I am told that it is mainly because I can ‘lock in’ with a drummer and make the band sound good…… Edited March 13, 2012 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331672114' post='1577052'] [color=#222222]Not quite sure what this tells us: after a quick listen I would say that the first example is simple but very tight and is probably what you would record under a vocal; the second track has a more developed bassline with some nice ideas but isn’t as tight (probably as you are trying not to follow the kick too closely)[/color] I can see what JTUK is getting at here, thru I suspect that you are playing with some pretty skilled players in a genre that perhaps does not depend on a the same type of groove that you might find in funk or rock and who can make it work Having said that, [b]if[/b] you take the approach that you have been talking about playing a decent rock band then, brother, you ain’t gonna get the gig! I did quite a lot of gigs last year in a few different bands last year, playing everywhere from Bedford to the Orkneys. Some of the guys I was playing with have a track record and are pretty decent players. I like to think that I am demand because of my immense charm, good looks and outstanding chops! However, I am told that it is mainly because I can ‘lock in’ with a drummer and make the band sound good…… [/quote] Point one for me is that it tells us that both approaches can work or not work and that you do whatever is suitable. Point two is that you are right, you have to do what suits the music. I can sit on three notes on the kick when it's necessary and it often is with one of the bands I play in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331672582' post='1577070'] Point one for me is that it tells us that both approaches can work or not work and that you do whatever is suitable. Point two is that you are right, you have to do what suits the music. I can sit on three notes on the kick when it's necessary and it often is with one of the bands I play in. [/quote] I knew that we could agree on something..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331673737' post='1577098'] I knew that we could agree on something..... [/quote] Hopefully we agree there are no rules about bass and kick drum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331674253' post='1577108'] Hopefully we agree there are no rules about bass and kick drum [/quote] Oh, go on then..... Well, not really, to be honest (at least not for what I play) - but the important thing is whatever works..... Edited March 13, 2012 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331675668' post='1577134'] Oh, go on then..... Well, not really, to be honest ([b]at least not for what I play[/b]) - but the important thing is whatever works..... [/quote] And that's the key point isn't it. All our musical decisions are based on context, experience, and taste and personality. That's why I get a bit annoyed about people saying erroneous stuff about rules, and probably why I upset JTUK earlier, for which I'm sorry, and yet unbending in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 You didn't upset me... I just think your approach is wrong in terms of what the OP is asking. Time and tempo is all important... I wasn't the one who was talking about kick drums and lock-ins exclusively, but I maintain, if you start on 90 bpm and deviate much more from that because it might suit the flow and concept I'd be thinking that time the keeping was awful. as in the groove isn't working, lets speed it up.. Why not get the groove in the first place unless the players aren't upto it...?? I think the OP coming back to this after this side-track is to his credit and also that there are standards to perform to even if your units don't. And to move this onto the reasons why, go to any recording thread and any click thread. I'd offer that most units would benefit in the long term playing to a click, but it is easy not to insist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331718301' post='1577491'] You didn't upset me... I just think your approach is wrong in terms of what the OP is asking. Time and tempo is all important... I wasn't the one who was talking about kick drums and lock-ins exclusively, but I maintain, if you start on 90 bpm and deviate much more from that because it might suit the flow and concept I'd be thinking that time the keeping was awful. as in the groove isn't working, lets speed it up.. Why not get the groove in the first place unless the players aren't upto it...?? I think the OP coming back to this after this side-track is to his credit [b]and also that there are standards to perform to even if your units don't.[/b] And to move this onto the reasons why, go to any recording thread and any click thread. I'd offer that most units would benefit in the long term playing to a click, but it is easy not to insist [/quote] Um, this is that part I don't get, and it's a bit annoying, because you are implying my bands are in some way unskilled, and that I don't care about tempo and timing. Why do you think my 'units' don't have standards? I have made it perfectly clear that timing and tempo is extremely important. Timing discipline is absolutely critical in Indian classical traditions in terms of raag structures. Raags start slowly, and the tempos increase throughout the piece until the end, where they are usually very fast. The tempo is led by the sitarist, the tabla player and the other musicians have to react very quickly and seamlessly to these changes. It takes a great amout of training and discipline. Please don't imply this is a trainwreck or pure luck or uncaring of the audience, that is deeply unfair, and simply wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 if you say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331722130' post='1577588'] if you say so. [/quote] I do. Let's leave it at that shall we, since it's a waste of my time, and not helping the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Just come in on the kick drum debate. If you are playing in time, you should automatically lock in with your drummer. Try locking with the hi-hat. It's more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1331762078' post='1578630'] Try locking with the hi-hat. It's more fun. [/quote] That almost sounds like you're playing jazz! Beware, it's a slippery slope....... Edited March 15, 2012 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Townes1992 Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1331655777' post='1576680'] So what sort of music do you want to be playing? Because I can't believe that you can't find others to play it with you. [/quote] Nothing out of the ordinary, i have really gotten into bluesy rock music as of late and i'd really like to play that kinda thing. But thats a pretty regular position, maybe some Led Zeppelin, Lyrnyrd Skynyrd. There is an unwillingness nowadays with youth it appears, and at least in the case of one actually being motivated, they are so by music i dont want to play (namely bands from the modern indie scene). There's nothing wrong with people wanting to play this of course, i just don't enjoy it personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 In that case I would have thought it should be fairly easy to find like minded musicians to play with. Certainly here in Nottingham it wouldn't be a problem. Maybe you need to look for a band who's average age is somewhat older than you. Don't take that as a negative, most older bands are only too happy to have someone younger in who will revitalise them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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