paddy109 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Excuse my ignorance but are there any issues with going straight oit through the PA as other instruments do. For instance could I use a small amp as a monitor and the main of the sound come through a PA. The band I am in are reluctant for me to try this but are always wanting more sound volume than I can produce! Paddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Nope, no problem at all, as long as your PA isn't stupidly small. It's almost impossible to get a double bass loud enough to be heard over a band with backline alone, especially if you're up against amped guitars. If your band only want you to go through the backline, then switch to electric bass - that's what Leo Fender invented it for..... I have my amp loud enough for myself and the drummer to hear on stage. We then take a line out into the PA for FOH sound and a monitor on the guitarist's side of the stage. To be fair, we don't need a huge of bass going through the PA, just enough to spread the sound out and allow me to stay below feedback inducing onstage volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Depends on the PA Paddy, if its just a basic vocal PA I wouldn't go anywhere near it with your low frequencies, you'll just suck up all the headroom of the system and the speakers will probably not be designed to take the low frequencies. In that scenario I think you'd be better off with a bigger amp and keeping control of your sound. If you're talking about an in house PA with a sound engineer etc. then thats a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Obvious problem is the bass taking up too many low frequencies and knocking out the vocal lows. The crux is this. . do you have a seperate amp for the bass? if not then you have no choice but to go throught the pa. In my experience, make do and mend and be happy with what you get. Unless it's a massive venue theres no problem. Modern venues always have ridiculously high volumes which are unneccessary. Tell the sound guy you want lower levels. Edited February 7, 2012 by lettsguitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickTann Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've had nightmares going through a pa as well. I now go through an amp AND a PA. At least I can hear myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 There really should be no more problem with this than doing exactly the same with an electric bass. You wouldn't put an electric bass through a vocal PA with 8" speakers and yes, you can run out of headroom much more quickly with bass frequencies so a decent amp and speakers are required but bottom E is still the same frequency. The only difference I can see as an engineer is getting a clean feed of your sound and a double bass is much more prone to feedback so you need to keep stage volumes down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTB Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You can certainly do what you are suggesting. Ensure you give the PA a strong signal, ideally from the D I out from your pre-amp. I assume you have one, if not I strongly advise you to get one to give you control of your sound. I play a central London venue where the stage is tiny & the house bass amp is either broken or locked away downstairs. I got fed up of struggling upstairs & through a packed club with it and started going direct into the PA. Whilst there's no monitor, the PA speakers are just above my head so I can hear just enough. Whilst I'd prefer my amp onstage, the practicalities make the PA solution the best for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I don't know if anyone else does this, but when we put the DB in the PA, we cut the low bass out, roll off anywhere from 80-180hz and below. This cleans up the DB tone to no end and keeps those headroom eaters at bay. You'd be surprised how much "bass" is still there but it's tamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 [quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1328867436' post='1533844'] I don't know if anyone else does this, but when we put the DB in the PA, we cut the low bass out, roll off anywhere from 80-180hz and below. This cleans up the DB tone to no end and keeps those headroom eaters at bay. You'd be surprised how much "bass" is still there but it's tamed. [/quote] Spot on; this is how I ask the engineer to do my sound when I'm lucky enough to get a PA feed. You want to get a nice clean middle out to the audience and the bottoms will look after themselves. I also ask for no DB on the monitors, seems to keep the front line happy. I also use a small backline most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy109 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Great replies and most of this understandable. If I use a amp for me on stage and go through the pa do I run a line from the amp to pa or pre amp to amp and pa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Probably best to go from the pre-amp so you can tweak your amp to suit you and not have to worry about it affecting PA feed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1329303083' post='1540185'] Probably best to go from the pre-amp so you can tweak your amp to suit you and not have to worry about it affecting PA feed... [/quote] Unless the DI out on your amp is pre-eq, which i think they most often are, but you'd need to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yes, pre-eq all the time if poss. Many amps are pre-eq and several even have a pre/post switch on their DI out. The EA iAmp even has a DI gain control which makes it so easy to get a good instant PA fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy109 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Ok - still digesting all the great advice. Throwing up more questions as we go. The gear we use for our gigs (mostly medium size pubs) -active speakers with 15" subs and tweeters, 300w per speaker. Is there any chance in blowing/damaging anything. Its all acoustic instruments - we tend to stick to a single mic approach if feedback problems dont occur. My plan is to try - bass to fishman pro pre amp, one lead to my gk150e and one to desk/foh - all sound ok? Learning as I go - the band I am in have not played with a bass before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Should be fine with those subs. I guess you could send to the desk pre-eq (I think the Fishman has a switch?) and then roll off some bottom there, as advised above. You can choose to go into your gk preamp and eq that, or into the effects return and eq on the Fishman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy109 Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 If I take two feeds out of the pre amp which two sockets out of the three do I use - xlr, send/tuner and output? Looking forward to giving all this a go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 XLR to the desk, not sure which of the others would be best for your amp. You're safe trying both though, just keep the input levels down on the amp to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy109 Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Thanks to everyone for the advice - had a gig last sat and much happier with the sound! Went through gk and pa - still gotta way to go but all in the band much happier. We all played like complete muppets mind you - hey it's only rock n roll! Paddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 [quote name='paddy109' timestamp='1332085148' post='1582935'] Thanks to everyone for the advice - had a gig last sat and much happier with the sound! Went through gk and pa - still gotta way to go but all in the band much happier. We all played like complete muppets mind you - hey it's only rock n roll! Paddy [/quote] Don't knock the Muppets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Glad the gig went well soundwise. The rest, hey you win some, you etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1332096122' post='1583195'] Don't knock the Muppets! [/quote] or the boys will be round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheG Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I often play through my amp and when the others go through a pair of Mackie 450's I also go through them. Although not to hog the headroom I always ask them to take most of the bass out. This way the punters get most of the bass frequencies from my amp but a bit of presence/clarity from the 450's. Then what I hear is a big clear punchy sound from both which can be excellent. So its a balance of the two really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 [quote name='paddy109' timestamp='1332085148' post='1582935'] We all played like complete muppets mind you - hey it's only rock n roll! Paddy [/quote] especially the drummer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy109 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Phil - no animals in our band - weve go a newgrass type of thing going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Astroturf?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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