Bass Strings for Fender Jazz 5 string - Problems with Floppy B

[spiderjazz]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]I got a Fender Mexican Jazz 5 string at the weekend, and I put a set of Dean Markley Blue Steel 45-128 gauge strings on it (they were the only one's available in the shop) and I'm not a fan on them overall, but the Low B in particular is really floppy and has no definition at all to it. I was reading there that Fender's have a 34" scale, so that makes them a bit looser, so what can I do to get the B string nice and tight? I'm going to go up in gauge, but is there any particular strings that have a tighter tension? I was looking at picking up a set of D'addario Prosteels that go from 0.45 - 0.135. What other brands of strings have people used with success on Fender 5 strings?[/font]

Edited January 31, 2012 by spiderjazz

[Acebassmusic]

I'm using Ken Smith TCRML-5's ([color="#000000"]Taper Core-Medium Light[/color] [color="#000000"].044 .063 .080T .102T .125T[/color]).

Also hex core strings tend to feel tighter / stiffer I find.

[Sean]

[quote name='spiderjazz' timestamp='1328044934' post='1520967']
I got a Fender Mexican Jazz 5 string at the weekend, and I put a set of Dean Markley Blue Steel 45-128 gauge strings on it (they were the only one's available in the shop) and I'm not a fan on them overall, but the Low B in particular is really floppy and has no definition at all to it. I was reading there that Fender's have a 34" scale, so that makes them a bit looser, so what can I do to get the B string nice and tight? I'm going to go up in gauge, but is there any particular strings that have a tighter tension? I was looking at picking up a set of D'addario Prosteels that go from 0.45 - 0.135. What other brands of strings have people used with success on Fender 5 strings?
[/quote]

What kind of bridge is on it? You could replace the bridge with something like a Gotoh, which will effectively give you a bit more tension as the anchor points are a few millimeters further back. You could also fit some Hipshot string trees, these too will make a difference. I did both these mods to my Yamaha BB415 and it changed the instrument completely and for the better. I got the idea about the string trees from reading something that Hugh MacDonald said about why he insists on these Hipshot retainers for all his Sadowsky basses.

You can see the bridge change in this thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/78057-yamaha-bb415/page__p__934898__hl__yamaha%20bb415__fromsearch__1#entry934898"]here[/url] and the string trees are [url="http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=26"]here[/url] and available from eBay and other online places. You will have a much more robust and less temperamental instrumental that isn't fussy about strings if you do these mods and in total, the bridge (a Gotoh copy that cost me £12) and the retainers (less than a tenner for two to cover all 5 strings) cost less than a set of strings and enhanced the look of the bass.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Sean

[charic]

Hehehe... "floppy"

[spiderjazz]

[quote name='Acebassmusic' timestamp='1328046301' post='1521007']
I'm using Ken Smith TCRML-5's ([color=#000000]Taper Core-Medium Light[/color] [color=#000000].044 .063 .080T .102T .125T[/color]).

Also hex core strings tend to feel tighter / stiffer I find.
[/quote]

Yeah I was reading about Hexcore strings last night, the DR DDT's look pretty good and seem to stay in tune well. I ended up ordering a .145 d'addario pro steel so I'll see how that goes first.

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1328083406' post='1521391']
What kind of bridge is on it? You could replace the bridge with something like a Gotoh, which will effectively give you a bit more tension as the anchor points are a few millimeters further back. You could also fit some Hipshot string trees, these too will make a difference. I did both these mods to my Yamaha BB415 and it changed the instrument completely and for the better. I got the idea about the string trees from reading something that Hugh MacDonald said about why he insists on these Hipshot retainers for all his Sadowsky basses.

You can see the bridge change in this thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/78057-yamaha-bb415/page__p__934898__hl__yamaha%20bb415__fromsearch__1#entry934898"]here[/url] and the string trees are [url="http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=26"]here[/url] and available from eBay and other online places. You will have a much more robust and less temperamental instrumental that isn't fussy about strings if you do these mods and in total, the bridge (a Gotoh copy that cost me £12) and the retainers (less than a tenner for two to cover all 5 strings) cost less than a set of strings and enhanced the look of the bass.
[/quote]

The bridge is the stock mexican bridge. I had thought of replacing it before so that definitely is on the cards now. Those two ideas are very interesting, and neither look like they will break the bank! It currently has a string retainer on the A, D and G strings, would it be okay then to get a separate 2 string retainer for B and E? I see that Sadowdkys and Laklands both have 5 string retainers/tension bars so I imagine it won't do any harm anyway

Looking at a Gotoh 201 5 string bridge, works out just less than 50 euro shipped.

Edited February 1, 2012 by spiderjazz

[bubinga5]

If ive ever had problems with a floppy B string ive used Hex Core strings...DR Low Riders are excellent... i tend to buy just the B string Low Rider, then buy a four string set of similar tonal qualities, that are round core.. Low riders do tend to be very stiff, not something im keen on from E to G... but there killer on a B string

DR Low Rider's also have a fantastic tone, lots of definition..

Edited February 1, 2012 by bubinga5

[andyonbass]

I had an idea about putting a spacer between the ball end of the string and the bridge, perhaps a small nut or something, threaded up the string
Never got round to trying it though, as the B on my mim is really good anyway. anyone think it might work? I dont know if it would adversly affect the intonation, I shouldn't think so as the length between the saddle and the bridge would still be the same
Or am I barking up the wrong tree

or just plain barking.......

[73Jazz]

Try a marcus miller 5 string string retainer, or like those on the roscoe beck V.
This will help the sound a lot

Edited February 1, 2012 by 73Jazz

[73Jazz]

I really do not know the english word for it, but you may try a cable binder and test if more pressure on the lowend strings and nut will bring you success

[spiderjazz]

[quote name='73Jazz' timestamp='1328131481' post='1522508']
Try a marcus miller 5 string string retainer, or like those on the roscoe beck V.
This will help the sound a lot
[/quote]

I ordered a 5 string retainer tonight for the bass, it will go across the 5 strings, but there is already a retainer there for A, D and G so it will be used for the B and E strings, hopefully it will help along with the bigger string!

Edited February 1, 2012 by spiderjazz

[spiderjazz]

[quote name='73Jazz' timestamp='1328131928' post='1522522']
I really do not know the english word for it, but you may try a cable binder and test if more pressure on the lowend strings and nut will bring you success
[/quote]

I assume you're talking about a cable tie [url="http://www.manufacturer.com/cimages/product/www.alibaba.com/0320/u/11321041_Cable_Tie.jpg"]http://www.manufacturer.com/cimages/product/www.alibaba.com/0320/u/11321041_Cable_Tie.jpg[/url]

I should have the retainer by next week and I'll let people know how it goes!

[Dom in Dorset]

If you move the bridge back , won't you then have to move the saddles forward to keep the intonation correct?
I put D'Addario nickel wound strings on my Fender Jazz (4) , I was careful to buy the same guage as the existing strings (on it when I got it) , the D'Addarios were much higher tension, I had to completely re-do the set up.

[Gwilym]

DR Lo-Riders should do the trick

[originalfunkbrother]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1328120385' post='1522198']
If ive ever had problems with a floppy B string ive used Hex Core strings...DR Low Riders are excellent... i tend to buy just the B string Low Rider, then buy a four string set of similar tonal qualities, that are round core.. Low riders do tend to be very stiff, not something im keen on from E to G... but there killer on a B string

DR Low Rider's also have a fantastic tone, lots of definition..
[/quote]

+1

[Norris]

If you want to stiffen it up a bit, either use a less flexible string (as AceBassMusic suggests with hex cores - never tried them myself), or a heavier gauge so you can get more tension on it.

The pitch of the string depends on it's length, mass and tension. The length between nut and bridge is fixed, it still needs to be tuned to 'B', so the only other variable is mass i.e. the thickness of the string. A heavier gauge string needs more tension on it to get to the same pitch - which should help with your problem with floppiness (snigger).

Any other gubbins you stick on your bass (like a different bridge, string trees, spacers, etc.) are not going to make any difference unless they [s]shorten[/s] lengthen the scale of your bass - and then your frets would be in the wrong place.

Edit: Longer string = more tension for same pitch - oops!

Edited February 2, 2012 by Norris

[Dom in Dorset]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1328187612' post='1523231']
If you want to stiffen it up a bit, either use a less flexible string (as AceBassMusic suggests with hex cores - never tried them myself), or a heavier gauge so you can get more tension on it.

The pitch of the string depends on it's length, mass and tension. The length between nut and bridge is fixed, it still needs to be tuned to 'B', so the only other variable is mass i.e. the thickness of the string. A heavier gauge string needs more tension on it to get to the same pitch - which should help with your problem with floppiness (snigger).

Any other gubbins you stick on your bass (like a different bridge, string trees, spacers, etc.) are not going to make any difference unless they [s]shorten[/s] lengthen the scale of your bass - and then your frets would be in the wrong place.

Edit: Longer string = more tension for same pitch - oops!
[/quote]
I was planning to post something like that myself, thank you.
A string tree on the head stock will increase the downbearing on the nut and can help eliminate some string buzz but won't have any effect on the sounding length of the string.

[P-T-P]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1328187612' post='1523231']
If you want to stiffen it up a bit, either use a less flexible string (as AceBassMusic suggests with hex cores - never tried them myself), or a heavier gauge so you can get more tension on it.

The pitch of the string depends on it's length, mass and tension. The length between nut and bridge is fixed, it still needs to be tuned to 'B', so the only other variable is mass i.e. the thickness of the string. A heavier gauge string needs more tension on it to get to the same pitch - which should help with your problem with floppiness (snigger).

Any other gubbins you stick on your bass (like a different bridge, string trees, spacers, etc.) are not going to make any difference unless they [s]shorten[/s] lengthen the scale of your bass - and then your frets would be in the wrong place.

Edit: Longer string = more tension for same pitch - oops!
[/quote]

+1 to this

You can't change the length of the string as the goal is the same note, but with increased tension. You can't simply increase the tension because that would change the note so the only thing you can really do is use a heavier gauge string in order to incerease the mass.

I've had a Fender Mex 5 in the past and the B always sounded completely different to the other four strings. I found that a .135 gauge string felt okay physically though.

[73Jazz]

[quote name='spiderjazz' timestamp='1328136580' post='1522645']


I assume you're talking about a cable tie [url="http://www.manufacturer.com/cimages/product/www.alibaba.com/0320/u/11321041_Cable_Tie.jpg"]http://www.manufacturer.com/cimages/product/www.alibaba.com/0320/u/11321041_Cable_Tie.jpg[/url]

I should have the retainer by next week and I'll let people know how it goes!
[/quote]

yes this is the one.

of course you cannot change the tension of bass strings with a string retainer,
but we had a collection of several roscor beck5, which only had a string retainer for the last 3 strings.
but one did add a string retainer for b and e string and the effect was really good, as the bass had absolutely more punch added,
than all the other rb5's. after that meeting all the guys switched to a string retainer for b and e.

nevertheless, dr lorider steel are really good strings for what you are looking for.
you may also should consider flats

Edited February 2, 2012 by 73Jazz

[Toasted]

The best strings I've put on a Jazz are Thomastik Infeld Power Bass - they're great.

Second best strings, Sadowsky Blue Steels.

[73Jazz]

powerbass are good strings but too expensive, you get same quality strings for less

[Sean]

[quote name='spiderjazz' timestamp='1328119674' post='1522179']
Yeah I was reading about Hexcore strings last night, the DR DDT's look pretty good and seem to stay in tune well. I ended up ordering a .145 d'addario pro steel so I'll see how that goes first.



The bridge is the stock mexican bridge. I had thought of replacing it before so that definitely is on the cards now. Those two ideas are very interesting, and neither look like they will break the bank! It currently has a string retainer on the A, D and G strings, would it be okay then to get a separate 2 string retainer for B and E? I see that Sadowdkys and Laklands both have 5 string retainers/tension bars so I imagine it won't do any harm anyway

Looking at a Gotoh 201 5 string bridge, works out just less than 50 euro shipped.
[/quote]

Gotoh ones here much cheaper than £50:
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gotoh-201-5-String-Bass-Guitar-Bridge-Black-/130589433225?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e67bc9d89#ht_1105wt_907"]Black[/url]
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gotoh-201-5-String-Bass-Guitar-Bridge-Chrome-/160667287662?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item256884406e#ht_1105wt_907"]Chrome[/url]

Or get one the same as I did for less

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-STRING-BASS-GUITAR-BRIDGE-STRINGS-THROUGH-REAR-BRIDGE-3-COLOURS-CH-BK-GD-/190584091576?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2c5fb273b8#ht_3764wt_1398"]Same as on my Yam [/url]

[spiderjazz]

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1328314691' post='1525582']
Gotoh ones here much cheaper than £50:
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gotoh-201-5-String-Bass-Guitar-Bridge-Black-/130589433225?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e67bc9d89#ht_1105wt_907"]Black[/url]
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gotoh-201-5-String-Bass-Guitar-Bridge-Chrome-/160667287662?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item256884406e#ht_1105wt_907"]Chrome[/url]

Or get one the same as I did for less

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-STRING-BASS-GUITAR-BRIDGE-STRINGS-THROUGH-REAR-BRIDGE-3-COLOURS-CH-BK-GD-/190584091576?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2c5fb273b8#ht_3764wt_1398"]Same as on my Yam [/url]
[/quote]

Thanks for the links. It was the first one that I am planning to get, which when converted to euros works out at around 48 euro.

That second one would be great, only I'd have to drill holes into the bass, unlike the Gotoh which would be a direct replacement.

My .145 hasn't arrived yet, so I'm going to wait until that comes to make sure that that solves most of the problem, at least acoustically. I'm then planning to order the replacement bridge, and I'm thinking of ordering a set of SD Quarter Pounder Jazz 5 set as well. They seem to have a pretty good balance of improvement over stock pickups and price.

[Sean]

[quote name='spiderjazz' timestamp='1328320799' post='1525631']
I'm then planning to order the replacement bridge, and I'm thinking of ordering a set of SD Quarter Pounder Jazz 5 set as well. They seem to have a pretty good balance of improvement over stock pickups and price.
[/quote]

I'd definitely have a look at [url="http://www.wizardpickups.co.uk/shop.asp?category=Bass"]Wizard pickups[/url], it's a company in Wales making custom pickups for very competitive prices, the service is great and if you phone up and speak to Andy, he'll pretty much do whatever kind of pickup you want within the limits of a J shape and the laws of physics. Support is fantastic and it helps keep these small niche businesses going.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Sean

[spiderjazz]

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1328358288' post='1525904']
I'd definitely have a look at [url="http://www.wizardpickups.co.uk/shop.asp?category=Bass"]Wizard pickups[/url], it's a company in Wales making custom pickups for very competitive prices, the service is great and if you phone up and speak to Andy, he'll pretty much do whatever kind of pickup you want within the limits of a J shape and the laws of physics. Support is fantastic and it helps keep these small niche businesses going.
[/quote]

I actually emailed him already during the week after seeing all the positive feedback he'd received on the forum. Unfortunately he doesn't do 5 string jazz pickups.

[Soliloquy]

A 145 B string, wow !

You could maybe use it as a tow rope if you don't like the sound of it I guess .

I had a US Fender Jazz 5 a couple of years ago. It was a really nice bass, no problems with the B string tension. I used to use DR Low riders on it. They have a hex core though, as others have pointed out.