bartelby Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1327015484' post='1505411'] spot on. we would all have to cancel our bank accounts, stop paying tax, stop shopping in supermarkets, and basically live in the woods and hunt our own food if we want to be ethical. where do we start ? [/quote] I'm shifting my bank account to the Co-Op, mainly because it's as ethical as a bank can be. So that's a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I had a bit of a crisis of ethics recently. I can't reconcile my thoughts and opinions with my ignorant actions. I don't want to abandon the lifestyle I love, but I honestly feel like a sh*t person for carrying on regardless. EDIT: If you chose to be ethical about one aspect of your life, isn't that an insult to the areas you're ignoring? Buying ethically sourced coffee might feel a bit better, but by driving a car (or using public transport) you're hurting the envirovment, not to mention indirectly funding some pretty nasty middle eastern regimes. Just by paying tax I am paying for people to be killed in wars I think are ethically wrong. Edited January 20, 2012 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Anything we do to be 'ethical' is mainly to make ourselves feel better. Either you're part of the problem or you're not. And unless you live in a cave and exist outside the system, you're part of the problem. Agonising over this stuff is the preserve of the middle-class. The poor couldn't care less, they're too busy scraping by and getting hammered whenever possible. Wouldn't you?. The rich don't give two f**** as they're too busy taking everything of value from out of the ground and selling it at the highest possible price. Wouldn't you? If you could? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1327058394' post='1505732'] I had a bit of a crisis of ethics recently. I can't reconcile my thoughts and opinions with my ignorant actions. I don't want to abandon the lifestyle I love, but I honestly feel like a sh*t person for carrying on regardless. EDIT: If you chose to be ethical about one aspect of your life, isn't that an insult to the areas you're ignoring? Buying ethically sourced coffee might feel a bit better, but by driving a car (or using public transport) you're hurting the envirovment, not to mention indirectly funding some pretty nasty middle eastern regimes. Just by paying tax I am paying for people to be killed in wars I think are ethically wrong. [/quote] I'm not sure it's possible for everything in this area to be black and white, that's it's actually possible to be ethically constistent in a first world country. The entire history of mankind is one nation screwing another. Are things better now that violent colonialism is (almost) a thing of the past or is the economic warfare of the modern era a greater evil? Short answer: try and to the right thing where possible and within reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I wouldn't buy them as I don't know if they're any good or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327058704' post='1505741'] Agonising over this stuff is the preserve of the middle-class. [/quote] I'm probably classed as "middle class" but I have zero disposable income and almost zero free time. I tend to think about this stuff late at night. Do poor and rich people not lie awake in bed at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327058704' post='1505741'] And unless you live in a cave and exist outside the system, you're part of the problem. [/quote]And once the bear who lives there wakes up from hibernation, you won't be a part of the problem anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylkinut Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I wouldn't have them. I'm aware that alot of what I do or choose to buy will be unethical without my realising it, but when given the choice I'll try and take the 'nice guy' route. Having said that, my vegetarianism seems to bug alot of people. I'm not on a crusade and I'm never preachy, but people assume I'm judging them when they pick a burger from the menu and I don't. So I've kept some cows and chickens cheery, but managed to piss off people in the process. Is it worth it? No idea. Each to their own - I just try and get the small things right. If you can get through life 'unethically' and not give a toss, bravo - you're probably having more fun than I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1327059011' post='1505754'] Do poor and rich people not lie awake in bed at all? [/quote] No. The poor are unconscious and the rich sleep warm, secure and guilt-free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Pollution. All around. Sometimes up and sometimes down. But always around. We are on different buses. But we are both burning petrol. Seriously, these debates are a minefield. My take has always been to do what I can and to manage my life as ethically as my knowledge base allows at any given time. If I discover something about a product I use that suggests something untenable, I will act accordingly but, at the same time, I don't feel guilty about what I don't know because I can't keep tabs on every element of everything I buy/use even if I spent every waking hour trying to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1327058139' post='1505719'] I'm shifting my bank account to the Co-Op, mainly because it's as ethical as a bank can be. So that's a start. [/quote] although as Skank once pointed out to me, they are massive backers of New Labour.. Building Societies are possibly a better bet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) [size=4][size=4][quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1327059292' post='1505767'][/size]We are on different buses. But we are both burning petrol.[/quote][/size] Bilbo, you're not using your exalted position as Moderator to advertise a web hosting company, are you?? Edited January 20, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1327059403' post='1505768'] Building Societies are possibly a better bet ? [/quote] Nah, they're all capitalist planet-rapers, man! Wake up to the vibe and burn all your money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1327059036' post='1505757'] And once the bear who lives there wakes up from hibernation, you won't be a part of the problem anymore. [/quote] Is this an Eric Cantona quote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327059258' post='1505764'] No. The poor are unconscious and the rich sleep warm, secure and guilt-free. [/quote] I disagree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1327059846' post='1505787'] I disagree! [/quote]Indeed. The rich hire the poor at a paltry rate to worry on their behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1327059011' post='1505754'] I'm probably classed as "middle class" but I have zero disposable income and almost zero free time.[/quote] oi ! what are you doing awake ? shouldn't you be unconscious ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1327059935' post='1505791'] The rich hire the poor at a paltry rate to worry on their behalf. [/quote] This is the basic premise of carbon offsetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I thought Cobalt was the guitarist in Zodiac Mindwarp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1327060170' post='1505799'] I thought Cobalt was the guitarist in Zodiac Mindwarp... [/quote] Nah, that's Geoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327060340' post='1505804'] Nah, that's Geoff. [/quote] Silly me. My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1327059403' post='1505768'] although as Skank once pointed out to me, they are massive backers of New Labour.. Building Societies are possibly a better bet ? [/quote] Arse! But then, it'd be worse if they backed the Tories.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1327060416' post='1505807'] Silly me. My mistake. [/quote] How's it going in Chair Town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I work longer hours than most people at my workplace, and probably do 2-4 hours of music "work" every night too. If I have the energy to stay awake and worry about my ethical choices surely those who go home after 8 hours do too? Also, how is "just do the best you can" any sort of solution? How do people go through life ignoring the fact that they're (largely indirectly) harming other people, animals, the whole planet? I'm sure I used to manage it but no idea how?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 [quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1327060484' post='1505809'] Arse! But then, it'd be worse if they backed the Tories.. [/quote] is there a difference ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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