Wolverinebass Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1326105466' post='1492216'] beign able to do widdly w***y stuff is the reward for learning good clean technique. hopefully some people see the fiddly stuff and are inspired to put the time in to learn to play their instrument. Instead they probably go 'Pshh, I could play that if I had a Fodera'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATub40Npxik [/quote] Damn right. If you don't have clean technique you'll never be able to do stuff like this regardless whether you hate it or not. I'm not saying I like or dislike VW or that type of insane-o fast as I can slappy slap stuff. More often it doesn't do too much for me but everything has its place. On the other hand, I remember the evening. 5th November 2000 at the SECC in Glasgow. It was the night I saw the Who and it literally changed my life. I was okay at bass at the time and was quite nicely sitting in the sort of Simon Jones of the Verve level of proficiency or style. II thought I was okay and was happy resting on my musical laurels so to speak. Then Entwistle piles in and does that 515 solo. It almost melted my face. Now I appreciate that he is an equally acquired taste, but it inspired me to play and learn all that I could. The fact that my own playing has progressed infinitely in the last few years is case in point. I'll never in a million years get the opportunity to use most of it in a band context unless the band was primarily geared to me showing off and I must admit, I'd find that really tedious because the songs would be rubbish. If the audience put up with it for more than 2 minutes I'd be really surprised. I never ever thought that getting a Fodera/Wal/Alembic/Status/ whatever would make it possible to play things that were light years ahead of me in terms of technique. I always thought it was down to practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1326141306' post='1492930'] I've just come in on this thread and I can't believe the blinkered attitude to a blatantly poorly filmed clip. [/quote] Nothing blinkered about my attitude - it just doesn't match the concensus. I watched some of the better quality vid and didn't like that either. In the spirit of pouring oil over troubled waters, it seems that there should probably be a proverb somewhere about the similarities between music and marmite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Don't like this 'no feeling' thing either. What if the feeling being expressed is 'Yeah, check me out and my skillz, I'm awesome.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I think he probably played badly in the first clip, I don't think the audio quality can be entirely to blame, but I'm sure even Victor Wooten has duff performances. For me though, the bass guitar always sounds bad when it's played like this - you get more mechanical noise than music, and not very musical mechanical noise at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 We're certainly not suggesting that the musical aspect of VW (any any other slapper) isn't subjective, but it was suggested earlier that what he is doing is 'random' or just punching his bass.....when of course it isn't. It's carefully selected technique applied with skill and plenty of study, that you don't click with the same aspect of the music that he does isn't out of the ordinary. But yes, instead of tarring him with one brush, dig deeper and find out what he's about, not just what the masses latch onto Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1326145973' post='1493034'] Nothing blinkered about my attitude - it just doesn't match the concensus. I watched some of the better quality vid and didn't like that either. In the spirit of pouring oil over troubled waters, it seems that there should probably be a proverb somewhere about the similarities between music and marmite. [/quote] Yeah it's called taste - and it can be a vast and varied thing - respecting the fact people other than yourself like/love other music is just a fact of life - I don't expect people to like my music but I know plenty of people do - and I take the fact others don't on the chin, that's life... I'm sure Mr Wooten won't be losing any sleep over the fact that loads of pople (say millions of people) LOVE what he does, and perhaps an even greater number couldn't give two hoots about it - that's life - and I know for another fact that he's more than comfortable with that. I'm sure you feel the same way about what you do and how people perceive you and your music right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The OP was critiquing the audience rather than VW. I have read his book the Music Lesson, and although I thought it was rather too fanciful in places, it is a great book by a master musician. I have great respect for him. But for someone who is such a wonderfully musical person to dilute this by providing the people in his audience who are only capable of appreciating craft, but not art, with a demonstration of athletics seems to me to be a little dishonourable and not serving music. It's like Arvo Part writing Gaga songs, nothing wrong with Gaga, but I think a musician needs to decide what is in the service of music, what is in service to the audience or potential audience, and what is in service to themselves, and strike some sort of symmetry that they can say is truly a reflection of themselves. Music from the heart as it were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='urb' timestamp='1326146961' post='1493060'] Yeah it's called taste [/quote] You know what I find the funniest thing about this? I have absolutely no issue about not liking this sort of music. It's a shame that people who do like this sort of music have such an issue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender73 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Do you reckon VW looks are bass forums? i doubt it. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1326147746' post='1493075'] The OP was critiquing the audience rather than VW. I have read his book the Music Lesson, and although I thought it was rather too fanciful in places, it is a great book by a master musician. I have great respect for him. But for someone who is such a wonderfully musical person to dilute this by providing the people in his audience who are only capable of appreciating craft, but not art, with a demonstration of athletics seems to me to be a little dishonourable and not serving music. It's like Arvo Part writing Gaga songs, nothing wrong with Gaga, but I think a musician needs to decide what is in the service of music, what is in service to the audience or potential audience, and what is in service to themselves, and strike some sort of symmetry that they can say is truly a reflection of themselves. Music from the heart as it were. [/quote] Totally - I think VW gets this kind of reaction because he brought so much technique to the bass - if this was played by a flamenco guitarist on an acoustic guitar would we be haivng this debate? I doubt it - I hear what you're saying NIge and agree with you but Vic has explored so much music as a writer, performer, and out and out player that I think as listeners we have to pick and choose. He's SO prolific that it'd be impossible to like everything he does - that goes back to taste - and there are plenty of things I don't really care for that he's done but when he hits the spot he does it oh so well. Anyway I'm not going to prattle on - I couldn't find the studio version of this tune - but this is one of my fave Wooten / Flecktones pieces - hope it opens some of your ears/eyes out there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlpFA5BbuU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well VW likes what VW does, so thats all that matters Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender73 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1326148360' post='1493091'] Well VW likes what VW does, so thats all that matters Si [/quote] Here here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='urb' timestamp='1326148249' post='1493087'] Totally - I think VW gets this kind of reaction because he brought so much technique to the bass - [b]if this was played by a flamenco guitarist on an acoustic guitar would we be haivng this debate? I doubt it[/b] - I hear what you're saying NIge and agree with you but Vic has explored so much music as a writer, performer, and out and out player that I think as listeners we have to pick and choose. He's SO prolific that it'd be impossible to like everything he does - that goes back to taste - and there are plenty of things I don't really care for that he's done but when he hits the spot he does it oh so well. Anyway I'm not going to prattle on - I couldn't find the studio version of this tune - but this is one of my fave Wooten / Flecktones pieces - hope it opens some of your ears/eyes out there [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlpFA5BbuU[/media] [/quote] You would from me! I detest the tourist flamencos, they are little or nothing related to the pain of the gypsies and the wonderful music they made/make. There's athletics in flamenco but there is emotion in one, and demonstration in the other. Thing is, most people who profess to 'like' flamenco can not distinguish between the two. Check out Ramon Montoya for the really incredible stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1326148360' post='1493091'] Well VW likes what VW does, so thats all that matters Si [/quote] How you know that, brother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender73 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1326148639' post='1493099'] How you know that, brother? [/quote] bloke down pub said so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I've not met, nor read of, a musician that likes everything they do. To me, it seems like it's the quest that's so rarely achieved, and when it is, most of what generated that feeling doesn't last very long. And thank f*** for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well, I suppose I can't know that for sure obviously But he certainly strikes me as the kind of human/musician that only pursues things that he loves, of course that is my own opinion of him. I know a few people who love what they do, because it's not in their programming to pursue anything else, fame, glory, success etc, which dilutes your art. Some people luck out with that formula, but those that don't.....don't care, because they're happy with what they do Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1326149274' post='1493116'] Well, I suppose I can't know that for sure obviously But he certainly strikes me as the kind of human/musician that only pursues things that he loves, of course that is my own opinion of him. I know a few people who love what they do, because it's not in their programming to pursue anything else, fame, glory, success etc, which dilutes your art. Some people luck out with that formula, but those that don't.....don't care, because they're happy with what they do Si [/quote] Interesting. For me, art is a process of reducing the percentage of stuff I do that I think is fake or sh*t. It's a f***ing long process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1326149230' post='1493114'] I've not met, nor read of, a musician that likes everything they do. To me, it seems like it's the quest that's so rarely achieved, and when it is, most of what generated that feeling doesn't last very long. And thank f*** for that. [/quote] I'd argue that most artists love what they do at the time, it's only retrospectively that they may re-evaluate the output, and that is often after they realise their motivation wasn't quite right at the time. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I wish I could play flamenco.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Jam' timestamp='1326149499' post='1493123'] I wish I could play flamenco.. [/quote] Buy Juan Martin's Book and CD. L'Arte Flamenco. And practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I actually like solo bass. I think that anyone who can take an instrument as "background" as the bass guitar, and proceed to absolutely tear up the rule book and show traditionalists what is possible on such an instrument, should be applauded, not slagged off. I've seen some of Victor's other stuff, and I'm not the biggest fan of the cilicky-clack stuff - his version of "Norwegian Wood" is beautiful up to the clickyness, but you cannot dismiss the guy's ability. In a lot of people's eyes, the bass guitar should be played in a supporting role - heard but not seen. Imagine what the world of music would be like if we all thought that way, you lot would have nothing to argue about... Players like Wooten, Mark King, Michael Manring, Jaco, Marcus Miller, Mick Karn are all trailblazers, and my world is all the better for it. And I dig his beard. Edited January 9, 2012 by Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1326149473' post='1493122'] I'd argue that most artists love what they do at the time, it's only retrospectively that they may re-evaluate the output, and that is often after they realise their motivation wasn't quite right at the time. Si [/quote] It's mostly the distance between articulation and retrospection that matters though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) As ever, it is all about context! Someone here posted a clip of The Las playing 'There She Goes' and the playing is awful - really grates on me. But it is a good tune and the original record is great so for it will irelevant for some people that they are not very good players VW is the polar opposite of that - he is showing off highly developed chops for an audience at events where people are going to see just that. I can appreciate that for 20 minutes (although I'm not really a VW fan) , but I probably won't buy the album or spend a lot of money on a ticket just to see him Of course, he wouldn't play like that in a different musical situation as he said himself. But showing off tricks at a trade show should be seen for what it is and not taken too seriously - what is wrong with seeing a master craftsman showing off his trademark licks anyway? Edited January 9, 2012 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1326149773' post='1493131'] It's mostly the distance between articulation and retrospection that matters though. [/quote] Well of course (If you mean what I think you mean), some people can't release a single song or album in their life no matter how long they're at it because they despise what they are creating straight away, they're constantly re-evaluating it. I'd suggest that often (not always), it's their motivation that is affecting their output, not their articulation. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.