xilddx Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1323978430' post='1469525'] I thought so too Nig, but I didn't want to appear presumptuous. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1323977590' post='1469506'] It's not presumptuous if you can back it up, and I think Jake probably can. [/quote] Back up the truck chap, I'm not doubting that for a second. I know for a fact that he can offer excellent inside advice and info. I was referring to the comment that most of the posts were from people who didnt have any experience of being a working pro. Whos to say someones post is irrelevent if you dont know what experience they have. I certainly dont know how experienced the majority of members are and therefore when reading their opinions on a given subject try (and fail a lot of the time) to take their opinions as a valuable input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1323978430' post='1469525'] I thought so too Nig, but I didn't want to appear presumptuous. [/quote] As opposed to assumptive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 This thread has got ridiculous. There is ways to make a living from music & if the OP wants to try to do that, surely we should be giving advice in how to do that, not criticising it and telling him he's living in a dream. FWIW OP, i'd take the opportunity to talk to Jake Newman, a working player with real life experience & leave this thread to die with arguments that are being by started by people that have no idea about it the industry that your trying to get into to! Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1323977050' post='1469495'] I only managed to get 3 pages in before it got too depressing. Note: Pardon me if this has all been covered but i couldn't bring myself to read 5 more pages if it goes the same way which trends suggested it may! Please to all those who have said such things, define a real degree, the real world, and a real job? EdwardHimSelf (sorry if i got you're username wrong, and this isn't a direct attack but just an example) You have or are studying a physics degree correct? (If not this becomes irrelevant haha!) I was told that studying physics will earn you more or less minimum wage unless you do great things, (not saying you haven't or won't this is just another example!) and that if you actually want to study physics you're more or less giving up a fancy car and a fancy house. You could always go into engineering but that's not the same thing, and your skills won't be used, and companies would rather employ someone with an Engineering degree over a physics degree anyway. (My father is an engineer with both a degree in physics and mechanical engineering and has worked for an oil company for 27 years now so this isn't all assumed etc) [/quote] I disagree with your views about physics degrees, only 8 to 10 secondary schools in the country have physics teachers who actually have physics degrees- there are just too many decent opportunities for jobs waiting for a physics graduate with a good degree. My physics teacher in school did have a physics degree, but he only had a 3rd. Not saying that a physics degree will make you rich, but it's not exactly uncomfortable, either. Don't listen to everything your Dad tells you, even if he is an engineer. Ok, so he decided to go into engineering after getting a second degree, fair enough. Doesn't really mean much though. I would very much have liked to do physics but unfortunately my A-level grades (or lack thereof) only allowed me to study engineering. Also yes you did get my username wrong, "Himself" is one word [quote] If this all seems a little naive it may be because i just am, everyone is different and everyone has different lives, oppertunities and situations. At the end of it i'm just a kid so what do i know? All this does make me not want to do anything to do with university though! [/quote] Something we can both agree on . You're definetely doing the right thing by questioning whether a degree is the right way to go for you. Remember I was saying about not listening to everything your dad says? Well that applies in this case too. He might be encouraging you to get a degree since it's what he did when he were a lad but you've got to politely remind him that it's your life and you're going to decide what to do with it. Trust me on this one- being stuck in a 2x3 room on your own miles away from home thinking to yourself "what the hell am I doing here?" is not a nice feeling, make sure that whatever you really, really want to do in your life requires the use of a degree. [quote]Sitarist has perfect pitch and can tell you the name, and actual note, of an interval on hearing it[/quote] I can do that too, doesn't make me a good professional musician though lol. Edited December 15, 2011 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) After I left graduated, I spent a year trying to find a job. After dozens of abortive interviews, I ended up in front of a guy who asked all the usual questions, looked a bit bored and started to wrap up. This is how the last 2 mins went: "So," says he. "Really, with a degree, you're a bit overqualified ([i]for a sales job[/i]). I think you've come a long way for nothing, tbh." "Oh" (faintly) "Says on your CV, you like music. What do you play?" "Guitar" "Electric or acoustic?" "Electric" "What do you play?" "Telecaster" "Rosewood or maple neck" "Maple" "I prefer rosewood myself. Soaks up the sweat. When can you start?" And that's how I got my first job. So much for degrees. [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited December 16, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1323981170' post='1469566'] I can do that too, doesn't make me a good professional musician though lol. [/quote] Only because you didn't follow the call, and because your even more of a depressing f***er than me. Sitarist has worked like f*** for what she's got, and believe me, she gets way more respect than she does money. She's the most amazing musician I've ever known and has made crowds of people weep with the beauty of what she does, I'm not kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1323983624' post='1469607'] Only because you didn't follow the call, and because your even more of a depressing f***er than me. Sitarist has worked like f*** for what she's got, and believe me, she gets way more respect than she does money. She's the most amazing musician I've ever known and has made crowds of people weep with the beauty of what she does, I'm not kidding. [/quote] I certainly am *you're. Seriously though, my point is that I think as a skill it's more common than you might think. Someone once told me that 1/3 of people are thought to be able to reference a pitch from their head, add that to even a casual interest with music theory and you've got the ability to name notes just from hearing them. I'm sure whoever you're talking about is fantastic, but there is probably more to what she can do than simply posessing that skill. If anyone has cried because of my music, it's probably because it's so awful lol. Edited December 15, 2011 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1323983937' post='1469612'] I certainly am *you're. Seriously though, my point is that I think as a skill it's more common than you might think. Someone once told me that 1/3 of people are thought to be able to reference a pitch from their head, add that to even a casual interest with music theory and you've got the ability to name notes just from hearing them. [b]I'm sure whoever you're talking about is fantastic, but there is probably more to what she can do than simply posessing that skill.[/b] If anyone has cried because of my music, it's probably because it's so awful lol. [/quote] Of course, that's what I've been saying all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1323984323' post='1469618'] Of course, that's what I've been saying all along. [/quote] I'm glad we're on the same page then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1323984426' post='1469619'] I'm glad we're on the same page then [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I can't offer advice as a pro musician as I'm a mile away from that standard. I can however offer advice as someone who employs people. I don't quite understand why so many people believe that if you have a music degree and then can't make it as a pro you're gonna end up flipping burgers. I employ 27 people in my business. I do my own recruitment and much as I use CV's as to help in the selection process they are by no means the sole tool for deciding whether someone would make a good employee. Some of my guys earn up to £40K and many of them have just a light sprinkling of GCSE's. To blame the wrong degree for failure to get a job is ludicrous. I would look much deeper into an application if the covering letter intrigues me. In the case of the OP i would instantly see that he has worked hard to pursue something he really believes in. Judging by his grade 8 already I'd wager he's going to work hard to get his degree. The guys I employ who have virtually no qualifications have other things going for them that convinced me they would work well. These things can be seen by a potential employer as long as you present them well. The problem comes when you encounter someone who spent 6 yrs to complete a 3 yr course. I believe that unless you wish to be a specialist (doctor, architect, structural engineer etc) then do a degree that you will enjoy and have the best chance at completing with a solid grade. Even if you can't ultimately make it in your chosen field you'll have already demonstrated a great range of transferable skills. My advice would be to not go to uni purely to live a life of student excess. Blowing thousands on beer will not only add to your debt (which I believe to be manageable due to the student loan scheme) but also distract you from being the best you can be. Finally, to answer the OP's initial question - No I don't believe the real musicians era is going to end. People have been fascinated and inspired by watching first class musicians play live for 1000's of years and I can't see that changing soon. It's kind of like valve amps. We all know they're heavy, can be costly to repair and there are more practical alternatives out there but we all know they rock. In the same way we know computerised music is cheaper / easier to produce but we'd much rather see someone play it live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1323890535' post='1468449'] That would be hell. I wanted a job that got me out and about, giving me something different every day and a chance to use my loaf. Add to that good prospects for promotion and sideways transfers, so if I get bored of doing one thing I can go and do another. No, I wouldn't be signing up to look at a computer screen for thirty years unless they paid me a great sum! [/quote] Police Officer I assume? 35 years is the standard for new recruits now. What's your service bracket if I'm correct? Which Force? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) To the OP. Go for it and give it all you've got. You'll regret for the rest of your life if you don't. You'll learn transfereable skills which you can apply to other aspects of learning or utilise on the job market. My wife's degree is in History but she is a fully qualified Chartered Management Accountant. She utilises skills she learned at Uni and says she does not regret studying History and wouldn't change it if she could. One of my workmates has a music degree and is a former session musician. He didn't make loads of cash but had a ball trying! He took the decision to change career simply because he wanted a change. Another workmate played drums for The Exploited. He's not a millionaire but describes it as the best time of his life, and he did make cash from it. Edited December 16, 2011 by edster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='Mog' timestamp='1323974585' post='1469463'] Seems like you answered your own question lad, good luck with it. Not trying to flame the thread but that one comes across a bit presumptuous lad. [/quote] I can see that you would think that, but my experience on here tells me that the vast majority of contributors don't work in the industry, anyone that knows me knows I would not presume and judge on any basis, my information is fairly sound within the parameters of what one could expect from the reasonable analysis of a similarly reasonable human being (I too do get things wrong) I have been a regular contributor here for thousands of posts over 4 years I know lots of the guys personally and have taught a considerable number of them. [quote name='Mog' timestamp='1323978826' post='1469533'] Back up the truck chap, I'm not doubting that for a second. I know for a fact that he can offer excellent inside advice and info. I was referring to the comment that most of the posts were from people who didnt have any experience of being a working pro. Whos to say someones post is irrelevent if you dont know what experience they have. [b]I certainly dont know how experienced the majority of members are[/b] and therefore when reading their opinions on a given subject try (and fail a lot of the time) to take their opinions as a valuable input. [/quote] I guess I'm saying that probably to a slightly larger degree I probably do... and I can't resist pointing out that it's a little presumptuous of you to suggest that I don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Sorry to have missed the ensuing gents... Guess what... I've been in a sw***y London hotel earning a nice wedge for 45 mins of quality music with some seriously talented individuals... eg Pat Illingworth of Bass Day Marcus Miller accompanist fame on drums, head of music at Salford university Robin Dewhurst on keys and the dynamite Mark Crooks on Sax and clarinet, working for an old pal Simon Milner-Edwards who runs a few function bands, all long standing colleagues of mine. Last night I played at Newmarket Racecourse, tomorrow I'm at the same hotel, Tuesday I was teaching, at London Centre of Contemporary music... depping for Rich Brook who is on tour with Go west, I also taught in my home studio today and I have sessions happening in there and other places too... Earning a living from music is fabulously rewarding, I have been all over the world in my job, I have raised a family of three kids, (wife didn't work until the last child went to school) I have played in palaces, country manors, stadiums, (and muddy fields) for royalty, presidents and everyone else. I don't make a fortune but then I couldn't give a sh*t what car I drive, I meet and have met some fantastically interesting people... It's there if you want it... EDIT.. seriously mods... s_wan_ky gets asterisked? Edited January 12, 2012 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 To give a direct answer to the question... No, i believe that music will go hand in hand with living on earth for the foreseeable, some may argue that the creators and producers of future music are not 'real musicians' I would hazard a guess that some musicians of long ago would say the same of me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1323981170' post='1469566'] I disagree with your views about physics degrees, only 8 to 10 secondary schools in the country have physics teachers who actually have physics degrees- there are just too many decent opportunities for jobs waiting for a physics graduate with a good degree. My physics teacher in school did have a physics degree, but he only had a 3rd. Not saying that a physics degree will make you rich, but it's not exactly uncomfortable, either. Don't listen to everything your Dad tells you, even if he is an engineer. Ok, so he decided to go into engineering after getting a second degree, fair enough. Doesn't really mean much though. I would very much have liked to do physics but unfortunately my A-level grades (or lack thereof) only allowed me to study engineering. Also yes you did get my username wrong, "Himself" is one word Something we can both agree on . You're definetely doing the right thing by questioning whether a degree is the right way to go for you. Remember I was saying about not listening to everything your dad says? Well that applies in this case too. He might be encouraging you to get a degree since it's what he did when he were a lad but you've got to politely remind him that it's your life and you're going to decide what to do with it. Trust me on this one- being stuck in a 2x3 room on your own miles away from home thinking to yourself "what the hell am I doing here?" is not a nice feeling, make sure that whatever you really, really want to do in your life requires the use of a degree. [/quote] My teacher at school does have a physic degree so i guess we are one of them! (Biggest and supposedly best, but i have no idea how you'd gauge that physic department in scotland) And i did apologise in advance if i got your username wrong, i was in hurry and didn't have time to check so again i apologise! And oh yeah definately, i'm doing a part time apprenticeship at the moment and if all goes well in my year out i may never go to university just need to see how things pan out. I'd like also point out the way you are disagreeing with what i've said on physics (it's certainly a viable life choice but as we have both stated you won't be making bags of riches) is surely in a similar vein to those and yourself disagreeing with what has been said on studying music? At the end of the day everyone just has to do what they want. And the thing we agree on, i hope that wasn't you calling me niave and that's that I'd love to study music, or physics those are goals and fantasies but in all likelyhood that's all they will ever be, just as playing stages as cross the world and being recognised for my music not being a rich rock star or anything i mean just being paid to perform around the world which a music degree especially in classical music if you are accepted into a conservatoire. But again as pretty much everyone has said on either side of the arguements going on here, do what you want. If you want to do it, who are we to stop you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1324027501' post='1469845'] I'd like also point out the way you are disagreeing with what i've said on physics (it's certainly a viable life choice but as we have both stated you won't be making bags of riches) is surely in a similar vein to those and yourself disagreeing with what has been said on studying music? At the end of the day everyone just has to do what they want. [/quote] My point is that degrees mostly to an extent are being billed as the geese that lay the golden eggs to getting great jobs at the moment. I think this is untrue, but moreso for performing arts degrees. I think there are certainly more opportunities to get into something like music or art, without having to come from an *ahem* "academic" background. [quote] And the thing we agree on, i hope that wasn't you calling me niave and that's that [/quote] You said it, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1324029924' post='1469882'] You said it, not me. [/quote] In terms of degrees and how far they would get you, however if you were calling me naive to life in general then that i'd have to disagree with was what i meant. I do understand i said i [i]may [/i]be naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1324030411' post='1469887'] In terms of degrees and how far they would get you, however if you were calling me naive to life in general then that i'd have to disagree with was what i meant. I do understand i said i [i]may [/i]be naive. [/quote] I said I agreed with what you said, so if you feel that I am saying something about you that you disagree with, then that's because you said something about yourself that you disagreed with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 What i mean is, i whole heartly accept i may be naive to university and degrees and what not, however i am not naive to life, the importance of things, how to put food on the table and things like that is what i meant! It wasn't meant to come out like an attack so sorry if it seemed that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1323999812' post='1469749'] I don't make a fortune but then I couldn't give a sh*t what car I drive, I meet and have met some fantastically interesting people... It's there if you want it... EDIT.. seriously mods... s_wan_ky gets asterisked? [/quote] Dont think you cant get a nice car though. I met a session trumpet player who had his brand new 5 series BMW broken into at a gig in london. It's down to the priorities that you decide to spend money on, as with any other earner in any other industry. I think now the only reason this thread is carrying on is because people want it to for their own boredom and lack of things to complain about. write to the BBC complaining about the cold or whatever you boring bastards do but stop ruining basschat with your wrong opinions and negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1324029924' post='1469882'] I think there are certainly more opportunities to get into something like music or art, without having to come from an *ahem* "academic" background. [/quote] IME this is most certainly true. First off I have to say I have never been able to actually make a living out of music, despite having come close on more than a few occasions over the 35 years or so that I have been playing. I do however make my living in another creative industry and not having any kind of degree has never hindered my ability to get work and get paid for it. I do know many musicians who have got musically related jobs and AFAIK of those that actually have a degree none are musically related and have not to my knowledge contributed in any way to assisting them in getting their jobs. Also none of them actually make a living from playing. The closest is the drummer in my current band whose main source of income is teaching drums. He's able to do this not because he has a degree but because he's a really good drummer and a nice bloke who's patient and encouraging with the kids he teaches. I'm of an age where if you studied music at school or beyond it was classical music. If you played anything else you were largely self-taught and if you wanted to earn money by playing you basically got on and did it by making yourself known and available. So long as you were of a reasonable standard, being known and being able to get on with the people who you were playing with was far more important. I realise that standards have changed a bit since then - certainly the younger musicians that I've played with in the last 10 years have been far more technically competent than I was at their age - but who you know is still more important than what you know. To the OP. I don't think that your aspirations are unrealistic. What do think you need to do is decide whether what you want to do right now is go to University, or have a go a making a living out of playing music. IMO if your playing abilities are good enough to get you onto a music course studying bass, then you've probably already got the technical ability for most of the work you are likely to be offered as an unknown musician. If you can also sight-read, get on well with other people and have to confidence and determination to do what it takes, then you have the majority of the required skills for the majority of musician jobs. In some ways going to university could be seen as procrastination. That you don't have the required drive to go out there and try and make a living by playing. What you want is a mentally untaxing job with flexible hours that pays enough to cover your living expenses, but leaves you with enough time to take on as many playing jobs as possible. Certainly if I was 18 again knowing what I do now I wouldn't be bothering with university but getting out and playing with other musicians as much as possible and building up a network of contacts while making myself known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1323981005' post='1469562'] This thread has got ridiculous. There is ways to make a living from music & if the OP wants to try to do that, surely we should be giving advice in how to do that, not criticising it and telling him he's living in a dream. Jake [/quote] I totally agree. This thread has mostly been a bit of a barrage of half-truths and misunderstanding, mostly from people who have no experience of of reading Music as a subject at Uni level. You do not go to study music to come out the other side with a degree, the qualification has nothing to do with earning your place in such a competitive industry. What you get if you course is any good is experience, understanding, and most importantly, contacts and networks. Probably the best advice being offered is to ignore pretty much everyone who's posted and to find out for yourself. Bottom line is that there is money to be made from being a professional musician, providing you have the necessary skills. I know people who own houses based on nothing more than playing bars and clubs week in week out. You might want to aim a little higher perhaps, and then I know people playing with Sting, Kid Creole, Tinchy Stryder, Olly Murs, Hurts, Alexandra Burke, Craig David, Barclay James Harvest, but to name a few, all of whom have honed their craft and networked through being Music students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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