Reality check

[max363]

Hello Basschat,

I've been playing bass for a third year, and I came to a point where I am really confused about my posiblities.
When I played in a nu-metalish band, I felt like I was average bassist. Maybe even above average. I did not feel/see any flaws in rythm, nor my grooves. However, around 6 months ago I was accepted into jazz/pop band, where all musicians are way better than me(profesionals or studying music) and then I saw how many flaws I have...
Even tho I work a lot more, and a lot more sistematicly, I feel less and less capable of a player. It came to the point where I get so nervous/confused that I start to f*** up even most simple 8th note grooves/shuffles...
Obviously friend do tell that I'am good, I feel meh at best. So, this is where I need your help basschat- I need side opinion. Here is jam recording:
[url="http://soundcloud.com/max363/funk-jam-4#"]http://soundcloud.co...363/funk-jam-4#[/url]

I'd like to thank ahead for your opinions and constructive criticism

P.S. if you are wondering why I need this reality check - i got money, and dont know if i should spend it on travel/new bass or on bass teacher...

Edited September 18, 2011 by max363

[Wally]

That's a big change in style. Relax a little, enjoy the experience, they've stuck with you for 6 months so you can't be doing to bad. Playing with musicians better than you will only make you better and if you've got the money, spending it on a [u]good [/u]teacher is the best playing investment you can make.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Wally

[ZMech]

Kinda know what you're going through. Played in general rock bands back in school, and thought I was pretty good. However, I then got to uni, and went along to the jazz/funk jam nights, and realised how much more room i had for development (i.e. that i was rubbish). Thankfully I'm able to say that I'm now a much better bassist, although I'm actually doing more practise than ever at the moment.

How about just asking one of your band members for some informal lessons? I did the same with a mate who's great on trumpet, just spent an evening discussing stuff like how to play over chords and other basic theory, whilst I provided some beers to drink as payment.

Saying this now, since moving to double bass back at christmas, I got myself a proper teacher, and just monthly lessons with him have been hugely helpful.

One last note, have recently started recording myself, and it seems no matter how good it felt whilst playing it, it's never as good on the listen back through unless it's truly perfect, guessing you might be having some of the same symptom.

[JTUK]

Take the positives out of this. They don't seem to have a problem with you as you have lasted 6 months so you can ask them how they feel you can improve even further
and what they would like you to work on.
Use this as a good learning experience and tap into their collective knowledge.
Ask them what they like and don't like so much and canvass opinions and how they approach things.
Sounds like a very good opportunity.........

[max363]

Thanks guys, you made a lot of sence especially Zmech - i do have same symptoms

[Faithless]

Being through something like that myself, my advice - you must get a good teacher: he'll give the right stuff for you to improve, and he'll help you to get through hard times like this.

There are a few guys on BC that are really worth attention - Joe Hubbard (I'm his student, and Joe is the real deal, when it comes to music tuition,but you have to be ready to work really hard everyday), Scott Devine, Jakesbass (Jake Newman).. Don't know where you're from but it doesnt matter because you can hook up with those guys via Skype video (I'm getting my lessons like this, and it's totally fine..)

let us know how you get on,
easy
Laimis

[OliverBlackman]

every time you just come to terms with something in music it unravels something else and after three years of studying at a music college i dont think its possible to ever know everything and successfully use it.

If your playing jazz your in for long roadtrip. You need to listen to as much of it as you can as often as you can. Transcribe licks, analyse chord charts and buy mark levine's jazz book of music theory.

[Skol303]

As with most things in life, you'll progress and improve more quickly if you practice with people who are better than you, rather than staying within your 'comfort zone'.

Relax and enjoy the experience!

[Doddy]

[quote name='max363' timestamp='1316362095' post='1376912']Hello Basschat,
P.S. if you are wondering why I need this reality check - i got money, and dont know if i should spend it on travel/new bass or on bass teacher...[/quote]
I think it's a very easy choice........You'll get far more out of spending the money on lessons with a good teacher than
you will spending the money on a new instrument. If you want a new bass,great,but if you would rather improve as a
player (which it sounds like you do) you're better off studying.

[Bilbo]

Welcome to the real deal. I am 30+ years in and still feel like a total charlatan. I would love to be a prpoer musician instead of pretending to be one. Probably done over 1000 gigs and never had any complaints from anyone about my playing but, from my own perspective, I get worse and worse the more I learn. I think they call it moving from unconcious incompetence through conscious incompetence.....

[BottomE]

You can learn a lot from books too and being disciplined in your practise. So many people i know just end up doing the same old stuff when they practise. Setting goals, writing them down and sticking to your plan is a good way to develop. There are loads of good books and it may pay to learn some of the basic stuff before you start paying for lessons.

For me paying £30 per hour to learn major/minor scales is not money well spent. I really believe you should have this in your locker before you start to pay for lessons.

When you do go for lessons try and find a bass teacher who is recommended and not a guitar teacher.

Other than that enjoy the journey and don't get too hung up on the destination.

[Gust0o]

Scott Devine's a total dude.

I can empathise with the OP. I just think you have to be honest with what you want out of your playing, and what it is in your playing that makes you happy - that will determine how much you might wish to advance, or simply relax back into your comfort zones and enjoy your playing.

It's all subjective, so don't listen to any of us telling you there's a single route to "success". Maybe you'll want to learn alongside the band; maybe you'll want to pick up a teacher; maybe you'll just be happy where you are - just let us know what you pick and how you get on

[Doddy]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1316531826' post='1379281']
For me paying £30 per hour to learn major/minor scales is not money well spent. I really believe you should have this in your locker before you start to pay for lessons.
[/quote]
It is money well spent if the player doesn't know and understand the scales. I've had people who come for lessons who
say they know the scales but when questioned can only show you a fingering pattern and proving that they don't actually
know the scales at all.

[BottomE]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1316532579' post='1379300']
It is money well spent if the player doesn't know and understand the scales. I've had people who come for lessons who
say they know the scales but when questioned can only show you a fingering pattern and proving that they don't actually
know the scales at all.
[/quote]
Sure, but a good book will go into detail about the relationship between notes in a scale and the relationship between one scale and another. You can find this stuff out easily. Its not difficult. The difficult part is being motivated and disciplined in your practise. If i was rich i might pay a teacher for everything - if not i would make a lot of effort to get the basics learnt first.

[Bilbo]

If you go to a teacher, don't second guess him/her. Let them teach you. Nothing worse than a student that already knows everything.

[charic]

My guitarist makes me feel like a complete amateur at times too. Don't worry about it too much, I've improved more in the last 6 months than I have in years.

I havn't had a chance to check your recording but stick with it. Good musicians in a band is the best teacher you'll find

[Doddy]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1316533283' post='1379315']
Sure, but a good book will go into detail about the relationship between notes in a scale and the relationship between one scale and another. You can find this stuff out easily. Its not difficult. The difficult part is being motivated and disciplined in your practise. If i was rich i might pay a teacher for everything - if not i would make a lot of effort to get the basics learnt first.[/quote]

Unfortunately,too many people will look at a book and just see the pattern and practice that,believing they know the scale-which
is even easier than actually learning the scale. You wouldn't believe how many people don't know that an D major scale (for example)
contains F# and C#.

[charic]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1316533386' post='1379317']
If you go to a teacher, don't second guess him/her. Let them teach you. Nothing worse than a student that already knows everything.
[/quote]

Or a teacher that teaches you what you already know or don't want to pay to learn. Granted a good teacher should find your comfort zones quite quickly mind

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1316531826' post='1379281']
For me paying £30 per hour to learn major/minor scales is not money well spent. [/quote]

I would expect any teacher charging 30/hour to give you an approach and suitable resources, not sit there showing you that stuff.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1316533283' post='1379315']
Sure, but a good book will go into detail about the relationship between notes in a scale and the relationship between one scale and another. You can find this stuff out easily. Its not difficult. The difficult part is being motivated and disciplined in your practise. If i was rich i might pay a teacher for everything - if not i would make a lot of effort to get the basics learnt first.
[/quote]

The "difficult bit" is probably different for everybody. For example I have (if I say so myself) a sharp analytical mind and excellent motor skills and have a tendency to use those things to cover my weaknesses (aural recognition and repertoire) . Had I enguaged a teacher about 25 years ago I could have started work on those weaknesses alot sooner

[BottomE]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1316536173' post='1379366']

The "difficult bit" is probably different for everybody. For example I have (if I say so myself) a sharp analytical mind and excellent motor skills and have a tendency to use those things to cover my weaknesses (aural recognition and repertoire) . Had I enguaged a teacher about 25 years ago I could have started work on those weaknesses alot sooner
[/quote]
Absolutely. I am not saying don't get a teacher. Quite the opposite. I am just saying that there is a lot of stuff that you can do yourself as well as get a teacher. I live in a reasonably sized town and cannot find a teacher locally. That said, it doesn't mean that i can't learn stuff.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1316532579' post='1379300']
It is money well spent if the player doesn't know and understand the scales. I've had people who come for lessons who
say they know the scales but when questioned can only show you a fingering pattern and proving that they don't actually
know the scales at all.[/quote]

Are my ears burning

I'm not a beginner but find working just from a book difficult without a little guidance from someone who knows what they are doing and as for them being a guitar player a scale or reading music is the same on both and I know plenty of guitar players that can play bass very well too. That said I chose a bass playing teacher that is less local than many teachers around here but I'm not a beginner so my lessons are a bit more advanced than one designed for a total novice, not by much though!

[Killerfridge]

[quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1316516485' post='1378971']
Being through something like that myself, my advice - you must get a good teacher: he'll give the right stuff for you to improve, and he'll help you to get through hard times like this.

There are a few guys on BC that are really worth attention - Joe Hubbard (I'm his student, and Joe is the real deal, when it comes to music tuition,but you have to be ready to work really hard everyday), Scott Devine, Jakesbass (Jake Newman).. Don't know where you're from but it doesnt matter because you can hook up with those guys via Skype video (I'm getting my lessons like this, and it's totally fine..)

let us know how you get on,
easy
Laimis
[/quote]

I agree with this. Joe is a tutor at the ACM, and he is phenomenal. Another couple of fantastic tutors are Mike Nichols (also on here) and Phil Mulford (great if you can get him!).

[Faithless]

[quote name='Killerfridge' timestamp='1316548073' post='1379604']

I agree with this. Joe is a tutor at the ACM, and he is phenomenal. Another couple of fantastic tutors are Mike Nichols (also on here) and Phil Mulford (great if you can get him!).
[/quote]

Yep, Joe's now teaching at ACM, but he's doing his own private thing (one-on-one lessons via Skype or in-person), so you might wanna have this in mind.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1316530180' post='1379256']
I think it's a very easy choice........You'll get far more out of spending the money on lessons with a good teacher than
you will spending the money on a new instrument. If you want a new bass,great,but if you would rather improve as a
player (which it sounds like you do) you're better off studying.
[/quote]

+1000

Best money you'll ever spend. It'll mean working hard but it sounds to me like you care enough to put the hours in.