Wal - order time is now up to 15 months

[Fat Rich]

Yikes, I struggled to get through the 16 to 18 week waiting time for a Status, 15 months would drive me mad.

[BigRedX]

There was an interview with Simon Farmer (Gus Guitars) a few years back where he says that a standard Gus Guitar or Bass takes 150 hours to make.

First off that's about 4 standard working weeks - provided that you are working flat out and only building a single instrument and you're not having to wait for materials or work being done by outside contractors/suppliers.

Secondly think about how much you'd like to earn per hour as a decent living wage and multiply that by 150. And that's before you consider the cost of material, tools and equipment, premises and other business running costs.

When you consider all those factors it isn't really surprising that when you order an instrument from one of our fantastic UK custom builders that it takes the time and cost what it does.

[Toasted]

I don't think many luthiers are getting filthy rich from it.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Toasted' post='1246736' date='May 27 2011, 10:13 AM']I don't think many luthiers are getting filthy rich from it.[/quote]
Word.

[kerley]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1246706' date='May 27 2011, 09:54 AM']Secondly think about how much you'd like to earn per hour as a decent living wage and multiply that by 150. And that's before you consider the cost of material, tools and equipment, premises and other business running costs.[/quote]


Exactly, the labour costs makes up the majority of the cost. Same for anything made in UK, US, most of Europe.
For those non nationalistic types it would prove a better bet to buy from abroad where 150 hours would equate to £100 but guess the access and valid list of top class builders is harder to find in Asian countries?

[chris_b]

I believe Paul Herman still does repair work for Charlie Chandler which is probably how he pays the bills.

I don't know what part of that 15 months is "waiting to start" time and what is "build" time but it seems to me that if Paul wasn't comfortable with the rate of commissions his prices would be different.

As others have said, I'm happy that Wals are still being made, although it would have improved the resale value of my Wal if they weren't!!

Edited May 27, 2011 by chris_b

[lobematt]

Just been doing a bit of reading on the Wal history as I thought the company had stopped making basses, managed to catch myself up on what was going on but also stumbled across this which I found hilarious...

[chris_b]

[quote name='lobematt' post='1246803' date='May 27 2011, 11:01 AM']....Just been doing a bit of reading on the Wal history as I thought the company had stopped making basses....[/quote]
Pete Stevens did stop making basses, although not officially. He had orders for basses which he wasn't working on, I guess due to his ill health. There were several failed attempts to buy the company but finally Paul Herman, an ex Wal luthier, took it on, cleared the backlog and is now taking orders.

[lobematt]

How long where they out of action for?

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1246524' date='May 27 2011, 12:55 AM']Go for it happy to answer.

I've not earnt real money in a band since I was 16/17, and I'm 30 now. I've played in mainly underground hardcore punk and progressive indie bands since then putting in everything for nowt.

This new project is brilliant, free practices, nice lads, good musicians. Nope, it's not helped much to pay for what I spend on gear but it helps [/quote]

I'm just wondering what a 4000pund bass provides that a 1000pund bass doesn't. This has been covered before, but I've played a shuker jazz since then and IMO it was no better built than a 1000pund stingray, except for personal preference I sound and looks I don't think there is much in it. Except a W&T.

Also if you are having a wait time of 15 months, isn't it time to hire some help?

[chris_b]

The difference is important to some people and will never be important to others.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1246874' date='May 27 2011, 11:55 AM']I'm just wondering what a 4000pund bass provides that a 1000pund bass doesn't. This has been covered before, but I've played a shuker jazz since then and IMO it was no better built than a 1000pund stingray, except for personal preference I sound and looks I don't think there is much in it. Except a W&T.

Also if you are having a wait time of 15 months, isn't it time to hire some help?[/quote]

I can see where you are coming from. Wals look and sound fantastic, but I'd rather have 3-4 of the mote readily available instruments rather than sink everything into one.

This might change as I get older, who knows. I would still like a NYC Sadowsky, despite the fact I think the sound may not be 100% me.

[BigRedX]

You said it yourself - personal preference.

If you simply want a stringed instrument that produces low notes there are plenty that will do the job for under £200. As you spend more money you get to chose the features that are important to [i][b]you[/b][/i]. Of course like anything else there's the laws of diminishing returns as you spend more. With something like a Wal everything apart from the machine heads, strap buttons and fret wire has been custom made for Wal and there is no other bass that has those features in that particular combination. If the features that make a particular high-end bass are important to you then there will be no real alternative for that particular make of bass.

No one for a minute would consider a Rickenbacker 4001 to be a substitute for a Fender Precision, so why should one high-end bass be an acceptable substitute for another?

[Clarky]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1246885' date='May 27 2011, 11:59 AM']The difference is important to some people and will never be important to others.[/quote]
I just paid around three times for my fretless '83 Wal what I have recouped from selling my drop-dead gorgeous, superb-playing '71 fretless Fender P/J - was it worth it? Yes. The Wal is astoundingly playable, sounds wonderful and its MY fretless

[Clarky]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1246790' date='May 27 2011, 10:44 AM']As others have said, I'm happy that Wals are still being made, although it would have improved the resale value of my Wal if they weren't!![/quote]
Chris, best sell me your Wal 5 before it depreciates further

[kerley]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1246874' date='May 27 2011, 11:55 AM']I'm just wondering what a 4000pund bass provides that a 1000pund bass doesn't. This has been covered before, but I've played a shuker jazz since then and IMO it was no better built than a 1000pund stingray, except for personal preference I sound and looks I don't think there is much in it. Except a W&T.

Also if you are having a wait time of 15 months, isn't it time to hire some help?[/quote]

You say no better than a Stingray but it all depends how you are judging better. Sound and playability may be the same. My £160 bass plays exactly as I like it and no matter how much I spend I can't see how something would play better for me. However it could sound better, but again I prefer passive so if I just put in top pickup/electronics then it may well sound the same (overall cost still only £250)

As stated a few posts back, the time spent on the build is where the money goes. How many hours did it take to mass produce the Stingray versus a potential 150 hours for the handbuilt?
For some the extra few thousand is worth that.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1246874' date='May 27 2011, 11:55 AM']I'm just wondering what a 4000pund bass provides that a 1000pund bass doesn't. This has been covered before, but I've played a shuker jazz since then and IMO it was no better built than a 1000pund stingray, except for personal preference I sound and looks I don't think there is much in it. Except a W&T.

Also if you are having a wait time of 15 months, isn't it time to hire some help?[/quote]

Growing from a single craftsman hand building to a team of craftsmen hand building top quality instruments is quite hard to achieve unless you've got a lot of business savvy. Most guitar builders just want spend all day making guitars, not running around managing a lot of staff and clients, sourcing larger quantities of top quality materials, keeping a production line busy and not running out of parts, doing marketing, finding larger premises, accountants meetings etc.

There have been quite a few luthiers who have grown to meet demand, their products start to suffer and then they often seem to sell their business and go back to building guitars on their own or with a small team of trusted helpers.

And as others have pointed out there actually isn't a lot of money in hand making guitars, most of these guys work hard to make it pay and stay in business. As soon as you employ some staff and pay out for premises and other overheads you can find it doesn't add up.

Edited May 27, 2011 by Fat Rich

[Truckstop]

Yeah, I was also wondering why Wal don't just employ another person to help clear the backlog and improve the rate of construction. Im sure there's plenty of people who would be put off ordering a Wal if it took that long to get it in your hands. So maybe if they got someone else in, then they would sell more?

Truckstop

[BigRedX]

It appears that there are enough people wanting custom instruments to not be worried by long build times.

Besides all that extra time gives you the opportunity to save up the balance of the payment.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1246885' date='May 27 2011, 11:59 AM']The difference is important to some people and will never be important to others.[/quote]

Exactly. I guess it's not important to me.

This whole scene just isn't me, I'm more average Joe than I realise.

[TheGreek]

Maybe somebody should snap up the two that are on the "For sale" thread - must say I'm impressed with the light coloured (Olive wood IIRC) 4 string - Sod's Law that as soon as I bought one another would come along!!