xilddx Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I realise they are not to everyone's taste, but .. [list] [*]They are superb sounding instruments [*]They are built beautifully [*]The finishes are perfect [*]The quality control is second to none [*]The woods are gorgeous and consistent [*]The fret work is outstanding [*]The electronics are excellent [*]The ergonomics and usability design is evolutionary [*]The hardware is exceptionally well designed [*]They balance perfectly [*]They play like a dream [*]They feel wonderful in the hands [*]They are immensely versatile tonally [*]The set up options are better than anything else [*]The customer service and support is superb [*]There is no upcharge for lefties or fretless versions [*]Full user kit, manual and luxury gig bag with every one [*]Loads of great bassists play them [*]They are committed to continual improvement and deeply care about the entire process from inception to customer satisfaction [/list] So why do secondhand premium German Warwicks only seem to command less than a third of the new price, but people appear prepared to pay up to £700 for a secondhand Japan Fender Reissue. Make that nearly a grand with shipping and import duty if they source them from Japan. Fender could probably only manage about three or four of those bullets above. And why the f*** am I selling my superb Corvette $$ that has served me faultlessly live and in the studio for a stupid price (I'm getting even stupider offers too) so I can jump on the awful boring mindless Fender bandwagon?? Eh? Please convince me I am a complete f***ing tool. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobpalt Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I fear that for some reason, it may be an anomaly of this forum, as I have very recently sold my $$ on ebay, and to be fair had people queing up to buy it, for a very acceptable price as well. I too have noticed the low prices here, and dont understand it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1103214' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:40 AM']Please convince me I am a complete f***ing tool. Thank you.[/quote] You are a complete f***ing tool OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuee Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) I must admit it does seem that you are, with respect, a bit of a Warwick fanboi. Nothing wrong with that, they're great instruments as you say - just not for me. But what I don't understand is why, if you love them so, are you defecting to the other side?? If you love your Warwick, don't sell it. Play it, and spread the word! Perhaps you can help drive the resale value back up a bit (Edited for typo) Edited January 26, 2011 by Stuee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) [size=5]NIGEL, DO NOT SELL THE WARWICKS! YOU'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. IT'S JUST GAS AND IT WILL SUBSIDE. YOU ARE BEING A TOOL![/size] Is that alright? I seem to remember you buying a Pat something jazz bass not so long ago, but then picked up the black corvette and fell in love with it again and subsequently sold the Jazz, says a lot. I haven't a clue why secondhand Warwicks command so little. Especially as they're going for less than brand new Rockbasses, which although good aren't German made Warwicks. Maybe sell the fretless if you don't play it much, but not the black one. I'm in danger of rambling, I'll stop Edited January 26, 2011 by Marvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='Stuee' post='1103228' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:52 AM']I must admit it does seem that you are, with respect, a bit of a Warwick fanboi. Nothing wrong with that, they're great instruments as you say - just not for me. But what I don't understand is why, if you love them so, are you defecting to the other side?? If you love your Warwick, don't sell it. Play it, and spread the word! Perhaps you can help drive the resale value back up a bit (Edited for typo)[/quote] But I want a Jap Fender RI with a B&B neck. I can't understand why. I have wanted one for ages. I got a bonus at work and to my huge surprise and deep disappointment my normally faultless car ate it all in the MOT last month. All my cash went towards it, so the Wicks are going. I know what I'm like, I will probably sell the Fender in six months time. Fickle f***er, that's me. My dream is to have a lifelong relationship with a bass, but I doubt whether it is possible with my personality :*( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='Marvin' post='1103230' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:56 AM'][size=5]NIGEL, DO NOT SELL THE WARWICKS! YOU'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. IT'S JUST GAS AND IT WILL SUBSIDE. YOU ARE BEING A TOOL![/size] Is that alright? I seem to remember you buying a Pat something jazz bass not so long ago, but then picked up the black corvette and fell in love with it again and subsequently sold the Jazz, says a lot. I haven't a clue why secondhand Warwicks command so little. Especially as they're going for less than brand new Rockbasses, which although good aren't German made Warwicks. Maybe sell the fretless if you don't play it much, but not the black one. I'm in danger of rambling, I'll stop [/quote] I know, I know, I know. Fact is, I adore the neck on my best mate's Jap Power Jazz, it's like the Geddy Lee sig and I believe the Jap RIs too, I want those neck dimensions in my hands. I just do. Can't explain it mate. But thanks for the kind words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) I think aesthetics are very important to many people. I have no doubt they are great instruments, and beautiful to many. Personally, however, I don't like the look of 'modern' looking basses (except for a perverse attraction towards the Pedulla Buzz). The only Warwicks I've seen that I like the look of are the Star and the Jack Bruce EB3 one, and even then I'd prefer the Gibson versions. I know it's illogical to choose form over function, but that's human nature sometimes. edit: remembered another one I like - the Fortress Flashback Edited January 26, 2011 by Roland Rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbluestew Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1103234' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:59 AM']But I want a Jap Fender RI with a B&B neck. I can't understand why. I have wanted one for ages. I got a bonus at work and to my huge surprise and deep disappointment my normally faultless car ate it all in the MOT last month. All my cash went towards it, so the Wicks are going. I know what I'm like, I will probably sell the Fender in six months time. Fickle f***er, that's me. My dream is to have a lifelong relationship with a bass, but I doubt whether it is possible with my personality :*([/quote] If its any consolation I too lust after a B&B necked Jazz, and its not only Warwick prices that are stoopid low. Didn't a 5'er Ray in great nick with original hard case sell on here for only £600 last week.?? I am looking to offload a whole load of gear soon, both amps and cabs ( Trace/EA/Ampeg ) and basses ( Overwater/ possibly my 77 Ray ) but AND IT PAINS ME TO SAY THIS, I won't be selling them on here until prices get more realistic. If Ebay is offering more realistic prices, I'll be selling there. Unfortunately. Be strong, I realise my B&B lust is maybe cosmetic so I might well buy a cheapy to get over it............then again I may sell everything and get Sei / Overwater to build me a Super Jazz !!!!!!!!!!! As you see, you don't have the sole rights to fickle.........ask any of our long suffering partners how many times they have heard us say "this is the one, I'll keep it forever" when trying to justify a bass purchase. It goes with the territory. As does baldness and goaty beards. Go with your heart............ Stewart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='bassbluestew' post='1103258' date='Jan 26 2011, 10:14 AM']If its any consolation I too lust after a B&B necked Jazz, and its not only Warwick prices that are stoopid low. Didn't a 5'er Ray in great nick with original hard case sell on here for only £600 last week.?? I am looking to offload a whole load of gear soon, both amps and cabs ( Trace/EA/Ampeg ) and basses ( Overwater/ possibly my 77 Ray ) but AND IT PAINS ME TO SAY THIS, I won't be selling them on here until prices get more realistic. If Ebay is offering more realistic prices, I'll be selling there. Unfortunately. Be strong, I realise my B&B lust is maybe cosmetic so I might well buy a cheapy to get over it............then again I may sell everything and get Sei / Overwater to build me a Super Jazz !!!!!!!!!!! As you see, you don't have the sole rights to fickle.........ask any of our long suffering partners how many times they have heard us say "this is the one, I'll keep it forever" when trying to justify a bass purchase. It goes with the territory. As does baldness and goaty beards. Go with your heart............ Stewart[/quote] I'm with you there mate, I too am definitely looking at ebay. BC prices are weird at the moment. I think Fender prices on here are vastly inflated, but much more reasonable on the bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1103214' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:40 AM']So why do secondhand premium German Warwicks only seem to command less than a third of the new price ...[/quote] Because Warwick have spent a substantial part of the last decade actively destroying their brand value. The have a complicated and largely incomprehensible range, which keeps changing and is littered with pointless "special editions", and is then more-or-less duplicated by their own Rockbass range of el-cheapo copies of their own basses. (That's horribly unfair, of course, but seems to be the general perception of many.) Buy a Fender and it says "Fender" on the headstock. Buy an el-cheapo copy of their own basses by Fender and it says "Squier" on the headstock. Rockbasses used to have "Rockbass" in childish squiggly handwriting on the headstock (maybe some still do) but these days they seem to have a "W" and that's it, making it ever-harder to spot the difference. With all that going on, who's going to pay top-dollar for a bass and hope that, when it's time to sell, a future buyer is going to recognise that [b][i]this [/i][/b]Warwick is the really valuable, sought-after model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1103214' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:40 AM']I realise they are not to everyone's taste, but ..[/quote] I don't have many answers, but I think your first line is the best explanation. Those of us who like Warwicks, like them a lot, so they get a good reputation, and people buy them. And then half of them find that Warwicks are just not for them at all. Btw, if you want a thin neck profile you'd really better try a brand new Wick. I'm not usually sensitive to these things, but my 2010 $$ has a neck to die for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) You've probably chosen the wrong time to do the swap over. In the current climate I think people aren't tempted into buying something unless the price is really low. Fender have always seemed to hold their value whatever the weather, not sure if that's an indication of brand recognition or the customer types they attract... EDIT: Sorry, I forgot. You are a chisel... Edited January 26, 2011 by icastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-L-B Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I have no problem with the prices. I've managed to acquire a '95 Fortress 1, 03' Thumb BO and Streamer $$. All three for less than the price of a single one of them new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Prices on here can go down easily... someone just wants to shift something quickly. But it is harder for them to go up because people don't want to profit off people. Also folk on here have a vast range of basses to choose from and are very swayed by fashion. Hence Fender is in, boutique jazzes are in, and warwick's are not in fashion. Stingrays were also stupid cheap a while ago. But the price of warwicks is picking up from a couple of years ago, when you could buy a neck through warwick for less than a new mex fender. the difference in price isn't helped by warwick's daftly recommended retail prices either. Gumtree and ebay seem to have higher prices for warwicks. If it makes you feel better, my 1991 streamer stage one cost me, a year or two ago, £400 off gumtree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Its a fad .....everyone is after old fenders at the moment to go with there orange AD200'S. I agree there is a world of difference between a mass produced plank (although a good mass produced plank..... sometimes ) and something handcrafted like a proper warwick. I am a Jazz / Pres, player don't really know why, mostly always play them these days, I remember in the mid eighties,when no one wanted them, as everyone wanted to be Mark King and John whats his face from Duran Duran, so they wanted active basses and modern looking ones like the Aria. Its a human trait in which the herd is prepared to prepared over the odds for stuff in a heardistic way haha, look at the Class D amp fad, now we are onto valve amps (admit that is a good idea). After that who knows perhaps we will be back to the el scopo eighties sound. The only reason why these old fenders are any good aside from the design, which was ground breaking in the 50s and 60's is the fact that the surviving ones have been most probably used by pro's and they have been run over a good few times by a luthier so they play nice. I have some Fullerton Fenders I use them all the time, I love a particular jazz I have, the shape of the neck, the 7.25 radius, skinny high speed frets, thick slab of rosewood. Its one fast player, But is it worth the money its worth, hell no I would never pay that sort of beans. I have just got one made in the 'theme of the original' by a luthier for very much less, the only thing he hasn't crafted is the banana neck syndrome that the early ones developed. Its all crazy if people are prepared to pay it then all fool them. But thanks for the nod, I have always been after a Streamer! [quote name='silddx' post='1103214' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:40 AM']I realise they are not to everyone's taste, but .. [list] [*]They are superb sounding instruments [*]They are built beautifully [*]The finishes are perfect [*]The quality control is second to none [*]The woods are gorgeous and consistent [*]The fret work is outstanding [*]The electronics are excellent [*]The ergonomics and usability design is evolutionary [*]The hardware is exceptionally well designed [*]They balance perfectly [*]They play like a dream [*]They feel wonderful in the hands [*]They are immensely versatile tonally [*]The set up options are better than anything else [*]The customer service and support is superb [*]There is no upcharge for lefties or fretless versions [*]Full user kit, manual and luxury gig bag with every one [*]Loads of great bassists play them [*]They are committed to continual improvement and deeply care about the entire process from inception to customer satisfaction [/list] So why do secondhand premium German Warwicks only seem to command less than a third of the new price, but people appear prepared to pay up to £700 for a secondhand Japan Fender Reissue. Make that nearly a grand with shipping and import duty if they source them from Japan. Fender could probably only manage about three or four of those bullets above. And why the f*** am I selling my superb Corvette $$ that has served me faultlessly live and in the studio for a stupid price (I'm getting even stupider offers too) so I can jump on the awful boring mindless Fender bandwagon?? Eh? Please convince me I am a complete f***ing tool. Thank you.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuee Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) If it makes you feel any better, BTS_Spacebass's USA Spector 5-string which was [topic="116866"]listed on BC[/topic] for the very decent price of £1,000... then £900... then £800, just [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110637355808&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_949"]sold on eBay[/url] for a measly [b]£580[/b]. I'm gutted because I missed the end of the auction and didn't buy it. I can't imagine how [i]he [/i]feels. Very sad indeed Edited January 26, 2011 by Stuee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hard times for everyone financially at the end of the day. That Spector was easily worth double what it went for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Good answers so far, thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbluestew Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote]Prices on here can go down easily... someone just wants to shift something quickly.[/quote] Absolutely, I have no problems with someone reducing their price for a quick sale. Unfortunately is seems that when someone has done this, rather than folks realising its a one off bargain,it sets a precident and benchmark what for that item is worth - which is not realistic. [quote]But it is harder for them to go up because people don't want to profit off people.[/quote] Again I totally agree - but asking a reasonable price ( close tho what you paid for it for example ) is not against the spirit of Basschat, or indeed is it profiteering. Buying that 5'er Ray last week at a stupidly low £600 and whacking it straight back up for a higher price on here or ebay - as has been done by some in the past - would IMO be profiteering and although is not "in the spirit of Basschat" is not illegal. Just morally questionable. I have seen some great deals on here ( not silly cheap, but great value nontheless ) as sellers offer up items for sale that they have bought at a good price from other 'Chatters. Thats the kind of "spirit" I was talking about and what has made this place a bit special. It is a buyers market at the moment as was highlighted by Mr D-L-B, but there is a real danger that the For Sale boards will suffer as sellers go elsewhere if items are continually under valued and prices driven down. I for one think the prices on the For Sale boards have always been very fair and and never over inflated. For me the For Sale boards have always been a vibrant and important part of the Basschat experience. However I firmly believe you will see less and less quality gear being offered as sellers realise they can achieve a more realistic and fairer price elsewhere. In the end we will all suffer as the choice of quality sale items dwindles. Notice the huge increase in Trades at the moment. Hopefully this will keep things afloat until some sort of normality resumes. Sorry, that all got a bit bit long winded and longer than intended. Still you know what I'm getting at. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' post='1103272' date='Jan 26 2011, 10:24 AM']Because Warwick have spent a substantial part of the last decade actively destroying their brand value. The have a complicated and largely incomprehensible range, which keeps changing and is littered with pointless "special editions", and is then more-or-less duplicated by their own Rockbass range of el-cheapo copies of their own basses. (That's horribly unfair, of course, but seems to be the general perception of many.) Buy a Fender and it says "Fender" on the headstock. Buy an el-cheapo copy of their own basses by Fender and it says "Squier" on the headstock. Rockbasses used to have "Rockbass" in childish squiggly handwriting on the headstock (maybe some still do) but these days they seem to have a "W" and that's it, making it ever-harder to spot the difference. With all that going on, who's going to pay top-dollar for a bass and hope that, when it's time to sell, a future buyer is going to recognise that [b][i]this [/i][/b]Warwick is the really valuable, sought-after model?[/quote] You've got a point there, I've never really thought about it that way. To develop slightly further, with Fenders you've got the rather clear strata of MIM, MIJ and MIA which gives you an immediate idea of what price range you're looking at and allows buyers to very easily zero in to what (they think that) they want. Now, I know there's the basic distinction between Warwick body shapes, but each body shape then has its own 'lineage' of model options that seems mostly separate from the others'. Whereas Fender you've got your P and J (and others, but they're obv the main two) but they both have fairly similar model structure - ie you know what a deluxe will roughly be from each, etc. Edited January 26, 2011 by Maverick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1103234' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:59 AM']But I want a Jap Fender RI with a B&B neck. I can't understand why. I have wanted one for ages. I got a bonus at work and to my huge surprise and deep disappointment my normally faultless car ate it all in the MOT last month. All my cash went towards it, so the Wicks are going. I know what I'm like, I will probably sell the Fender in six months time. Fickle f***er, that's me. [b]My dream is to have a lifelong relationship with a bass, but I doubt whether it is possible with my personality :*([/b][/quote] So basically you have issues with commitment. Men! You're all the same. Have you considered relationship counselling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1103214' date='Jan 26 2011, 09:40 AM']So why do secondhand premium German Warwicks only seem to command less than a third of the new price, but people appear prepared to pay up to £700 for a secondhand Japan Fender Reissue. Make that nearly a grand with shipping and import duty if they source them from Japan. Fender could probably only manage about three or four of those bullets above.[/quote] ARE YOU SUGGESTING IT'S A WASTE OF TIM TO ADVERTISE WARWICKS ON BASSCHAT??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='bassbluestew' post='1103321' date='Jan 26 2011, 10:57 AM']Again I totally agree - but asking a reasonable price ( close tho what you paid for it for example ) is not against the spirit of Basschat, or indeed is it profiteering. Buying that 5'er Ray last week at a stupidly low £600 and whacking it straight back up for a higher price on here or ebay - as has been done by some in the past - would IMO be profiteering and although is not "in the spirit of Basschat" is not illegal. Just morally questionable. I have seen some great deals on here ( not silly cheap, but great value nontheless ) as sellers offer up items for sale that they have bought at a good price from other 'Chatters. Thats the kind of "spirit" I was talking about and what has made this place a bit special. It is a buyers market at the moment as was highlighted by Mr D-L-B, but there is a real danger that the For Sale boards will suffer as sellers go elsewhere if items are continually under valued and prices driven down. I for one think the prices on the For Sale boards have always been very fair and and never over inflated. For me the For Sale boards have always been a vibrant and important part of the Basschat experience. However I firmly believe you will see less and less quality gear being offered as sellers realise they can achieve a more realistic and fairer price elsewhere. In the end we will all suffer as the choice of quality sale items dwindles. Notice the huge increase in Trades at the moment. Hopefully this will keep things afloat until some sort of normality resumes.[/quote] I've always found this line of reasoning a puzzle - NOT having a pop at Stew, but he's articulated it more clearly than most here. 1. Basschat is probably the single most-informed marketplace in the UK for buying/selling basses. 2. A thing is "worth" what someone is prepared to pay for it. 3. Very few of us buy a bass out of sympathy with the seller, or as a charitable donation. If the Basschat For Sale board places a low value on Warwicks and a high value on Fenders, that is NOT telling you something about those weird people on Basschat. It's telling you something pretty fundamental about Warwicks and Fenders. Asking prices can easily be over-inflated, in which case it's easy to monitor three weeks of daily 'Bump' by the increasingly-desperate seller. All that matters is the eventual sale price (or of course the withdrawal from sale). The high incidence of trades has been remarked upon many times before (several times by me). Exchanging basses of equal value allows both buyer & seller to take out of the equation the emotive subject of profit & loss. With the general shortage of cash at present, and the lousy economic climate, if I'd sold my Alembic for cash I'd have had to take a big cash loss but I'd have then been able to snap up cash bargains with my newly-bulging wallet. Instead, I swopped it in a no-cash deal for two other basses where the seller clearly felt that they weren't attracting the sort of cash interest he wanted. The Basschat For Sale marketplace is working just beautifully. If you don't like what it's telling you then by all means ignore it ... but you can't buck the market even by closing your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I feel your pain, I'm trying to sell my Thumb BO5 at the moment and there's hardly been any interest (I've had two firm offers, one pulled out and the other involves a trade with another Warwick, which I want to move away from). I've knocked it down to £750 and still not had any more interest. That's an insane price for a bass that costs nearing £2000 new, even from Thomann. If it were a Fender, they'd be going 2nd hand for £1.5kish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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