Bass Tablatures

[Doddy]

[quote name='daz' post='1021525' date='Nov 12 2010, 03:00 PM']Oh what a surprize the Tab snobs are out again, what a surprize (Yawn) There is nothing wrong in using Tabs to learn songs whilst starting out, especially to learn some favourite songs quickly to give ones sleft a little confidence, and its a waste of time starting another divisive thread about it.[/quote]

If you want to do that,fine. But I can honestly say that that 'alpha tab' looks completely useless.
It's not a matter of snobbery-I just feel that to recommend it to a beginner is bad advise.

Sorry,if that offend you.

[Gust0o]

The Alpha Tab would support knowledge of the notes and finger positioning - naturally, you'd then have to map it to the stave and work on timing, but it's still a valuable step when starting out.

I made my previous points above. Too much work and no play, makes Gus a dull boy. So I learned to play; and besides, the history of music pre-dates the history of notation, so I figure we all still have time to learn

[KevB]

Thoroughly recommend GuitarPro, it has the tunes in both tab and conventional sheet music notation which should you wish to learn sight reading might ease you into it more gently. The majority of Guitarpro files are fairly accurate from my experience.

[lojo]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1021536' date='Nov 12 2010, 03:05 PM']If you want to do that,fine. But I can honestly say that that 'alpha tab' looks completely useless.
It's not a matter of snobbery-I just feel that to recommend it to a beginner is bad advise.

Sorry,if that offend you.[/quote]


I understand your point about advice, assuming you mean if Tab gets them by then they may not see the need to learn to read,

I wish I had had someone to help me and advise me to learn to read, but I didn't


Equally Tab cant be called useless either, as clearly it does communicate a sequence of notes and speeds up the learn by ear process, limited yes but not completely useless


Someone starting out can come on this forum and be given tips on Tab reading as Daz did, so they can play smoke on the water with their mates quickly, and also see plenty of posts about reading and the doors that that can open too

Then that person can decide for themselves which path to take


Doddy, Did you learn to read early on, or have you played and gigged as a non reader and then decided to learn and achieved reading skills later?

Edited November 12, 2010 by lojo

[Doddy]

[quote name='lojo' post='1021867' date='Nov 12 2010, 07:54 PM']Doddy, Did you learn to read early on, or have you played and gigged as a non reader and then decided to learn and achieved reading skills later?[/quote]

I was taught to read from the moment I picked up the bass. When I first showed an interest in playing,I was shown a basic
root fifth pattern in C over a 12 bar form,and was shown it both on the bass and on the stave.

[stingrayPete1977]

As some of you know from another thread me and lojo are having a bash at reading the dots and are prepared to take some time (for me maybe years) to learn. I appreciate what doddy and some of our other reading members are saying but how many people would just give up and never play anything if it starts off too heavy. Its ok for me and I presume lojo as I can play to an ok standard (I think) I have 2 bands and a singer songwriter who has taken me under his wing with some quite testing songs to learn for potential live shows next year. Im just not sure reading is for everyone at the start if they just want to get rocking so I can see why the tab appeals so much and I can also see how it conflicts with "proper reading" too. A bit of everything would be best IMO but not sure how well that would work in the real world.

And as for the getting a gig [i][b]just[/b][/i] because you can read is;
[b]A[/b]- Utter cobblers (We have firmly established this over many pages before and even if you get this imaginary gig you will last [b]1 performance [/b]if you are a crap musician)
[b]B[/b]- Not of interest to most people on this forum never mind someone who has been playing for a week.

I dont want to drag this thread into the other but with comments like these I cant see how it cant?

Edited November 12, 2010 by stingrayPete1977

[JakeBrownBass]

I always want to back the side of the readers when this debate comes up, but i have relied on tab way too long and am trying to read as much as possible now.

But,

When i read tab, it let me concentrate more on techniques more.

So i progressed really quickly in terms of what i was able to play, but to play this i was relying on my ear & tabs.

If i had a choice, i would prefer to be have less technical abilities and be a proficient reader. And i could only do this as if i were to learn to read the moment i picked up the bass.

Its a lot less frustrating learning to read if your new to learning, and i think thats the most important thing.

If your learning to play the instrument from the start, you may as well learn to read at the same time as they go hand in hand.

[stingrayPete1977]

Im totally torn on this one TBH and maybe we will never know? Its a great idea but like I said before if it gets too heavy early on there is no point in someone being able to read a little bit if they never ever play because it bores them as they just wanted to get playing songs they know and love. Some people have a better brain for these things too, My sister does not play anything at all but could read and absorb a good music book in no time so if she wanted to learn to play that transferable skill would help her alot and no doubt be more of a reader then a jamming playing to start then learn to jam after rather than the other way round.

Notation just looks so hard compared to tab coupled with learning to actually play at the same time to me sounds even harder. I have trouble with tab so this new found desire to read dots will be a massive challenge for me and the more of us that take it the merrier so Im in both camps for the first time ever I think in my life!

[funky_numba]

I don't have a problem with the notes. Done all the musical theory stuff already from a singing point of view, so I have a good grasp of the theory of music.

I just want to learn to play bass from a bass point of view. For example, what string should I strum, what fingers should I use on my left hand to hold down the strings, should I use one string as opposed to another string to produce the same note. Is it just a personal preference?

I'm finding it hard work at times!! The other night I tried to play bass along to a fav song on a cd but some of the bass notes sounded even lower than my own bass could do. It's driving me nuts!!! Do I have to keep retuning my bass every time I play a different song in order to fit the note range? How do you guys prepare before practicing on a fav song???

Thanks for your input!!

Paul.

[funky_numba]

On another note... how do I get my bass to have a much brighter and hard funky sound? Change the pickups? Change my new Rotosound Swing Strings to Jazz ones or Ernie Ball Super Slinkys? I'm a kinda newbie to this malarky!!

Thanks.

Paul.

[Musky]

[quote name='funky_numba' post='1022120' date='Nov 13 2010, 03:06 AM']I don't have a problem with the notes. Done all the musical theory stuff already from a singing point of view, so I have a good grasp of the theory of music.

I just want to learn to play bass from a bass point of view. For example, what string should I strum, what fingers should I use on my left hand to hold down the strings, should I use one string as opposed to another string to produce the same note. Is it just a personal preference?

I'm finding it hard work at times!! The other night I tried to play bass along to a fav song on a cd but some of the bass notes sounded even lower than my own bass could do. It's driving me nuts!!! Do I have to keep retuning my bass every time I play a different song in order to fit the note range? How do you guys prepare before practicing on a fav song???

Thanks for your input!!

Paul.[/quote]

Take a look at the scales section at www.studybass.com for left hand fingering, though I'd imagine most beginner tutorial books would cover this as well. I'd focus on using the suggested fingering for each scale, though of course when playing a song there my be times when you decide to play a note in another position (depending on where the song is going or because you prefer the timbre of a particular selection).

Some recordings you'll come across may have been down tuned, or the bassist may be using a 5 string. If it's the former you can change the pitch in Best Practice so you can play along in standard tuning. If it's the latter you'll just have to play the note an octave up or buy a 5 string!

[quote]On another note... how do I get my bass to have a much brighter and hard funky sound? Change the pickups? Change my new Rotosound Swing Strings to Jazz ones or Ernie Ball Super Slinkys? I'm a kinda newbie to this malarky!![/quote]
For a bright sound you're using the right type of strings (round wounds). Everyone has their own preference for the brand of strings and you can experiment, but essentially the Rotosounds and the Ernie Ball strings will be in the same ball park. Have play about with your amp's EQ and the balance between the pickups on your bass.

Personally I wouldn't bother with trying to upgrade your pickups, as it's likely to set you back more than the total cost of your amp and bass. Save the money for your next bass!

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='Musky' post='1022174' date='Nov 13 2010, 08:32 AM']For a bright sound you're using the right type of strings (round wounds). Everyone has their own preference for the brand of strings and you can experiment, but essentially the Rotosounds and the Ernie Ball strings will be in the same ball park. Have play about with your amp's EQ and the balance between the pickups on your bass.

Personally I wouldn't bother with trying to upgrade your pickups, as it's likely to set you back more than the total cost of your amp and bass. Save the money for your next bass![/quote]
+1 to both points here. Rotos can die off very quickly, so it might be worth going down the Meths cleaning route. However it's not unknown for them to be dead on arrival, so it [i]could[/i] be you've got a duff set.

Also, that's why I asked what bass you'd got - some are worth tweaking & upgrading, some aren't. From the sounds of it, yours isn't... so you're now better informed as to what you're [i]really[/i] looking for & this will be gold dust when you buy your next one. Start trying anything you can get your hands on - from Squiers upwards, both 4 and 5 strings, with different pickup arrangements, active/passive etc. etc. Let your ears & hands tell you whether it's got what you need, then find out how much it is. It's as much a part of the learning process as theory & technique. Same goes for getting the best out of your amp.

As to what the fingering should be for any given song, that depends on the song. It's primarily dictated by where you've just come from & where you need to go next, without making huge leaps up & down the neck. F'rinstance...

It's perfectly possible to play a 12-bar Blues line in A like this:



But it only works in A or D (& can give a different vibe, especially if you pull off back to the open note after each fretting). If it's in Bb, your fingering will of necessity be different.

Pete.

[gizmo6789]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='1015962' date='Nov 8 2010, 06:16 AM']Greetings, what did you end up with? Yammy or something else?

Not all online tabs are dodgy, some of them are just plain wrong. Nevertheless there's more than a few that are pretty close/spot on, it's just a question of trial & error.
To decide which is what you need two things... a tab reader & a pair of ears. A couple of good free tab progs are [url="http://tuxguitar.herac.com.ar/"]Tux Guitar[/url] and [url="http://www.power-tab.net/guitar.php"]Powertab[/url] (of the two I reckon Tux is the better one). If you want to splash out, then [url="http://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php"]GuitarPro[/url] isn't bank-breakingly expensive.

For downloading tabs, I tend to use [url="http://www.911tabs.com/"]911 Tabs[/url] as that site searches loads of others as well. Generally if it ain't there, it don't exist.

So... what do you do if you can't find a tab? Well... you could post up a request in the Theory & Technique part of Basschat. If anyone has it, there's a sporting chance they'll post it up or provide a link for it. Talkbass has a similar forum (called "Tablature" oddly enough) & is another good resource.

That's one option. Another one (& in my opinion the better one) is to use your ears & figure it out for yourself. I suspect I'm right in believing that the vast majority of players here started out playing using exactly that method & many (me included) continue to do so. It works. Alright, it doesn't give the 'instant' result that having the tab (or the sheet music) does, but it's better for you in the long run... trust me.

Arm yourself with a few scales (Major, Minor & Pentatonic), get used to playing them all over the neck & you'll be astonished at how things will start to click into place. Learn the names of the notes - don't say/think "1st fret on the second-thickest string", say "B-flat". If you have to transpose a tune into a different key, that'll help. Knowing the note names and your basic scales also unlocks a whole shedload of tunes.

It's not a 5-minute job though. In fact, learning [i]never[/i] stops. It can become rather addictive tbh.

To answer your other question, YES. It's always a good idea to check your tuning before each practice session as it can & will drift - especially with new strings. You'll also find that recorded music isn't always tuned to the standard (A = 440Hz), it can often be a semitone down (Bon Scott era AC/DC, early Black Sabbath, & Thin Lizzy to name a few), or even a quarter-tone off (try The Small Faces for this). Then there's the Death/Grind/Sludge/Math/Nu-core metal lot who'll tune to all sorts of weird & wonderful "standards". Probably best not to go [i]there[/i] just yet.

If you can afford it, seek out a decent teacher in your area (preferably one that specialises in Bass) - that 'forced' regime can work wonders. If you can't, or don't have time, have a nose around [url="http://www.studybass.com/"]StudyBass.com[/url], & investigate the stickied posts in the aforementioned Theory & Technique bit of Basschat and also over on TalkBass (two sub-forums there - 'Technique' and 'General Instruction')

That Frank Stallone number... '80s or what?

Anyway... it seems to be in the key of Cm and the little run is a partial Cm downscale (but starting on the F)*. Over to you, you should be able to get this without resorting to tabs. Seriously, it's not that hard (but it's a good one to kick off with for a number of reasons).

Pete.

[size=1]*Theory is my weakest suit, so I fully expect to get pulled up on this [/size][/quote]

I have fallen prey to the weird and wonderful tunings of the death/math/grind elite.....CGCFA my apologies.

[Russ]

Tabs are great for beginners, since it can get you up and running quickly and build your confidence. This is a good thing. A few thoughts though. Firstly, tabs show you the notes, but teach you nothing about proper technique. You should employ the services of a good tutor to show you the proper way to bring together your left and right hand techniques. Get an actual bass tutor - not a guitar tutor who does bass as a sideline. Guitar tutors often don't have as good a grasp of bass techniques and of the rhythmic aspects of bass playing.

Secondly, as far as reading goes, you might not think you need it, but when I came to learn to read after 10 years of not doing so, it opened up my eyes a lot more to the rules of composition and harmony - having a full score in front of you, with every instrument written out, shows you a lot about how a piece of music actually works from a compositional perspective, and it makes you think of the music differently. You think of the whole piece of music as opposed to just your part in it. I'm still not great at it (those damn key signatures get me every time) but it's a very worthwhile thing to do if you're actually interested in the bigger picture musically.

So, basically, get your technique together, learn the positions of notes on the neck, and, if nothing else, make sure you've got your major, minor and pentatonic scales down. Once you know where the notes are and how to move through major and minor scales, reading becomes a whole lot easier. You see that dot on the top line of the stave, you know that's an A, and you know that A is either at the 7th fret on the D string or the 12th fret on the A string. Another thing that makes it less intimidating is, for instance, if you pick up piano music to learn with, for the most part, the left-hand parts (ie, the bass parts) are often rather easy - lots of root/fifths. Reading rhythms is another matter though - that can be tricky and takes more work than just being able to read the notes.

Over and above the whole tab/music argument, the thing that'll get you up and running and improving faster than anything else will be to play with other people. Join or form a band - even if it's not a great band, you'll improve so much more quickly than plodding away at home.

[Bloodaxe]

Something I've stumbled upon in the last few weeks is this...

In Guitar Pro go to View > Hide Tablature (in Tux it's much the same except you un-tick Show Tablature in the View menu).

Viola! No more Tab! So that means I have to start entering notes on the stave, which thus forces me to learn both the Bass & Treble clefs.

This does make transcribing take longer, admittedly, but I learn best when I have an application for the theory. Speed will improve with knowledge.

P.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Bloodaxe

[Marvin]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='1073261' date='Dec 30 2010, 11:12 PM']Something I've stumbled upon in the last few weeks is this...

In Guitar Pro go to View > Hide Tablature (in Tux it's much the same except you un-tick Show Tablature in the View menu).

Viola! No more Tab! So that means I have to start entering notes on the stave, which thus forces me to learn both the Bass & Treble clefs.

This does make transcribing take longer, admittedly, but I learn best when I have an application for the theory. Speed will improve with knowledge.

P.[/quote]

I found this a few days ago on TuxGuitar completely by accident - darned twitchy mouse fingers .
TuxGuitar is great!

[BassBunny]

+1 for the suggestion regarding a good tutor. Doddy mentioned "String Muting" and you could probably use a bit of help on basic technique:
a) Correct positioning of the Bass, (Strap Length)
Correct fingering
c) Muting
etc. etc.

If you don't get the basics of technique right now, it's a hell of job to get out of bad habits in the future, trust me I am a living example of that. As a converted guitarist i took loads of bad habits into bass playing and it has taken a while to shift them, but the difference is amazing.
A good Woodshead routine of Scales, Arpeggios etc. will be invaluable in the future. It's OK learning how to play popular numbers but it doesn't help if you find yourself in an Indie Band having to build your own bass lines.
I can recommend Funk Fusion Bass by John Liebman as an addition to those already mentioned.
Good luck with your progress.

[iconic]

[quote name='daz' post='1020925' date='Nov 12 2010, 03:39 AM']If you find yourself relying on tabs for certain songs that you cannot find sheet music for, then try doing what i do. Use 'Alpha Tab' I change the tab fret numbers for the notes themselves. So you are at least learning somthing whilst you play to it.

Here is regular bass tab:

G ----------------------------------------------------
D --------------------5--------------------------17--
A --------2----5-----------------14-----17----------
E ---3----------------------15-----------------------


Translated into Alpha Tab:

G --------------------------------------------------
D --------------------G-------------------------g--
A --------B----D-----------------b-----d----------
E ---G----------------------g----------------------



Alpha Tab works the same way as regular bass tab. All that is changed is the fret number becomes the note name. To distinguish between the same note name above the 12th fret, you simply use lower case.[/quote]

I think, speaking (OK writing!) as a rookie myself, this is a great way to learn the fretboard whilst learning a well liked tune...which is what we all do when we [b]first [/b]pick up a bass.

[stingrayPete1977]

As someone learning the dots at the moment I can confirm it would just confuddle the hell out of you if you ever want to convert it to the staff, The reason being it looks like a bit like a staff, At least normal tab is easier to seperate in your head. If you have no intention of reading I would stick to normal tab or if you want to progress to reading later learn to read the staff instead. Alpha tab just looks like a way for playing tab but looking a bit more proper to my eyes?

Edited December 31, 2010 by stingrayPete1977