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I got two TC cabs that i stack vertically sometimes. Nice having the amp at nearly eye level.

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1337553771' post='1662017'] JUST THIS I really don`t get the "I play bass and I have an amp so you lot can buy your own f***ing P.A" sh*t. The P.A is for ALL of you. What next? " Well I only sing backing vocals on a 1/3 of the set so I only have to pay £2 a gigh towards the P.A" f*** me, are you a business or not? What exactly is the point of turning up with your barefaced f***off cab and your 1200watt TC head when the punters can`t even hear the vocals? Short sighted selfishness. Rant over [/quote] LOL @ rant. Fair enough if you believe this - thats up to you but as you can see their are lots of different approaches to this. "The P.A. Is for All of you"? - as mentioned before, why is this treated differently to other gear? Nobodys been able to explain the special status of the PA. Not saying this is wrong but i want to understand. [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1337554429' post='1662026'] Im in complete agreement with the last two posts. Will people be basing how much they have spent on their own gear to get a discount off the cost of the PA. It can easily get out of hand. I really dont get the im all right jack mentality. Try going out without a PA and see if it effects all of you in the band. If it does that shows its the whole bands responsibility, at least as for FOH. [/quote] Sorry thats just silly. Try going out without a drum kit or guitar amp. That would effect everyone in the band too but nobodys suggesting that we all chip in for a new drum kit etc. I want to re-iterate that all we are trying to do is find the most equitable solution for us and i am open minded to suggestions. I do recognise a theme that there seems to be a "special status" accorded to the PA for some of you but not others. Thanks for all the positive contributions so far.

[quote name='Booooooom' timestamp='1337544832' post='1661814'] Pump It Up - Elvis Costello [/quote] nice

[quote name='garethfriend' timestamp='1337522437' post='1661285'] My question then: how do you know if your songs are rubbish or you have just heard them on a loop too many times? Gig them and see would be the obvious answer. Not sure if I like the idea of getting on stage with songs you don't believe in though. What you think? [/quote] Its a tough one. Listening back to demos i have been a part of over the years i can now honestly say that most of it was tosh and didn't deserve any recognition or critical acclaim. At the time i was playing the songs i did believe in them though. If you are finding it hard to believe in the songs before you go and gig them it sounds like you need a new band.

[quote name='ironside1966' timestamp='1337521739' post='1661264'] I see a band that works regally has a small business and needs investment , if all you do is take out you will not be able to compete with other acts who do invest back. "Do I need a PA to do my job? No. I spent a lot of money getting a rig that can cope with almost any occasion before needing access to any FOH." You are a share holder in the band so if having a better PA will make you more money, or enable you to carry on earning then you should pay your share. or alternatively you could ask to be but on a wage and relinquish ownership of the band. Arguably you could get away with less gear with a decent PA because get a better sound when the band plays quiet and lets the PA do the work. Bands are never fair, do you pay extra to the person who looks after the bookings, keep the books up to date or drives the van, Ect? I think the singer buying the monitors is a good compromise. [/quote] Some good issues. I am indeed a shareholder so i see your point about everyone benefiting from better kit though i don't see why its different for some than it is for others. I guess thats what i am trying to understand. Looking at it like a business you could say that those playing instruments who have bought all their own gear have already provided significant investment - more so than others? I don't know. Isn't that a fair statement? The person handling the bookings does get an extra cut for their trouble so thats already handled. As i understand it the new PA will still only be for vox and a bit of keys. It will just be a better slightly more powerful version of what we already have. There is no intention of having to put any bass or drums through it. From that perspective it does feel like buying someone elses new toys.

Its not a "logical" line in so much as its a bit unnatural - to me anyway. I've probably never "nailed" it but have had a lot of fun trying. I just finished the Nile Rodgers autobiography and you can pick up bits about Bernie Edwards through the book. I think Nile was a much better salesman than Bernie so got a lot of the production jobs after. For me, i can almost imagine Chic without Nile but never without Bernie. His lines were unique.

Holy cow there are some amazing fretlesses on here. Big Red X's collection is truly wonderful. I humbly share my S1 Jazz

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1337012587' post='1653979'] Nice mix. [/quote] +1 great choices

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1337461568' post='1660549'] If the band needs it, the band should pay for it. [/quote] [quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1337467240' post='1660607'] The pa is necessary for a gigging band. The whole band should chip in for it, regardless if you sing through it or put your bass amp through it or have nothing at all going through it. No pa means no gigs in lots of cases. Jez [/quote] Its funny isn't it that as a bass player i wouldn't get a gig if i didn't have any gear but a singer can get gigs with just a mic? I am not dissing this its an observation that many of you have highlighted in this thread. Why do we cut singers so much slack when we wouldn't for other members of the band? Surely anyone who wants to do something semi-professionally and earn a fair whack from it would want to have their own gear? Do i need a PA to do my job? No. I spent a lot of money getting a rig that can cope with almost any occasion before needing access to any FOH. In our situation you could argue that the singers have been lucky not to have invested in any new gear for years. In that time the drummer has upgraded his kit, keyboard player bought a new NORD - i have purchased a new rig, 5 basses and spare everythings.

No way Jose am i an expert player. I don't even like to think in those terms as it serves nobody except the egotist who proclaims they are. If what i play fits the song and gets people moving then job done. If i was forced to place myself on the Richter scale of bass brilliance after nearly 30 years of playing, some of those as a pro, it would be about 5, As other wiser heads have said, the more i learn, the more i realise there is to learn. And thats a good thing.

You chaps are priceless (unlike a PA). Some really good and funny contributions and i can go armed with some idea of how to approach this. Watch out next week for the "My Band Has Split After 5 Years" thread

The Willie Weeks solo you mentioned earlier is on a Donny Hathaway track called "Everything is Everything". Drummer should get a shout on this too. Good call.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1337435812' post='1659940'] Like it or not a band is essentially the singer/front person and some backing musicians. The PA is there to make the singer (and any other instruments that need it) heard. This in turn makes the whole band sound good. Therefore it is in the interests of all of band to have a good PA whether or not your particular instrument benefits directly from it. Otherwise you are a bunch of boring musicians playing boring instrumental and no-one wants to see that. [/quote] You've obviously seen us [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1337435889' post='1659945'] If you buy it...or contribute and the duo use it and devalue it with knocks etec etc and general use, then they pay to hire it. No obviously they hire off themselves as well... but £50 for dry hire gets nothing in terms of a P.A, IMO...so that sounds like a £10 a gig, minimum.. depending on the P.A spec.I In our band, the singer, gtr and me own all the P.A and lights and we take an extra fee from the bigger gigs to account for the initial outlay. There does, of course, need to be some give and take... but not the pi$$... whcih is what I think you help buy the P.A and they use it for outside gigs, is, IMO. I assume everyone loads the P.A in and out..? [/quote] We do share the loading. I bring along some lights too. Yes, its all about give and take but how much to give and how much to take is the question. Some really good ideas though so thanks guys.

Its going to end in tears innit There are a couple of themes from the incoming emails that are grating. The expectancy that everyone should pay for gear primarily used by 3 members of the band - if my bass gear wasn't up to the deal i'd happily upgrade it but not expect anyone else to pay. Whats the difference? The use that the duo will get out of the PA has been conveniently ignored by members of the duo in all financial conversations I can see a post in the Bands Wanted section coming up...

Thanks. Its going to be difficult. I kind of feel that i am being cornered into buying gear for someone else who will really get a lot more benefit from it than me. Yes, the band will sound better but maybe they should have had better gear to begin with? The PA will be used as much for the duo as the covers band. I do backing vox (under duress) on about 3 songs. I don't mind but could take it or leave it. I don't feel that it constitutes me paying for a new PA as i have already shelled out quite a bit on bass gear. Once of the comments that has got my back up is "c'mon you have already been benefiting from the existing PA for 5 years"? What does that mean. If you sing you need a PA - i didn't quite get how i was benefiting from it.

The busy covers band i play in does about 70 gigs a year. Typical functions, corporate stuff and weddings etc. In the last 5 years we have been using the PA that the guitarist has for his duo. It is used for a little bit of keys and 3 to 4 mics for vocals and one horn. Sometimes the guitarist puts a bit of guitar through - don't know why but he does. At certain gigs the PA is struggling to provide enough power. A discussion will take place next week about how we can upgrade the PA and of course central to the discussion will be money. The PA is also used by the singer and guitarist when they do their duo work and the equipment belongs to and resides with the guitarist. Several emails have already been sent. [list] [*]Guitarists idea is that we all pay an equal share and if someone leaves they don't get any money back. He retains the gear. [*]Singer is along the same lines but is willing to buy her own monitors as she feels she benefits from them most. [*]Keys player wants everyone to chip in and then get money back when they leave [*]The drummer and I are yet to offer any suggestions. [/list] How do you guys do this and remain friends?

Evil Undead - sympathies from me. I know what you mean - its like a sport for some people who seem to have little else to do. I don't know what you can do about it though

I was at Koko! 3rd time i have seen TOP. What a venue and great gig. I got down with the kids in the mashed up dance floor and had a ball. Good times.

We had loads of issues about this so we decided to: [list] [*]Setup a Blog [*]Anyone in the band can post a link on the blog of a tune they want to cover [*]Everyone votes [*]The songs with the most votes get worked on [*]The ones that work get added to the set [/list]

Gotta agree with a lot of the findings here. £500 for a Mexican Fender which is built to a lesser standard than a £200 Yamaha or Ibanez IS STOOOPID! My experience is that you have to try a few Fenders before you find a good one. Or just get a really old Squier

I'd quite like this problem. Our drummer speeds up on everything. I don't care though cos the punters are all still happy which is what its all about. We even laugh about it and its become a bit of a running gag. In your situation i'd try and find out what the consnsus is from other band members. If they don't care then it's your problem. If they do then you have some support. Always be nice about it though.

Not a bit. It was rubbish but i do regret most of the bass purchases since.

Oldie but goldie. If you don't like the long intro forward to 1:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96OgR6hjDY

Hi Garry Done a couple of projects like this and can't say i really noticed any diffference with the wood. Got some vintage pickups and an old wiring kit - now that made a difference. Welcome to Basschat B