JTUK

in a way.... out of our league in terms of sheer talent.

Can't be doing gigs without double pedals and a nice china splash... so mostly it is 12",14" mounts and 16" floor with the option to add an 18". 5 cymbals ex hats... I just love to see him hit them all... he is a show unto himself...

Our gear has to go in a certain way so bass amp and power runs are first, then drums set to that and then gtrs and keys can build round that. Mixer and P.A and lights need to be set pretty early as well, but drums are left to drum man as he knows how much air he needs to get to them..so outside, touching them is a complete no-no. Fine with me... Set-up for whole 5 piece band is 1 hr and break-down closer to 30 mins if all piling in...

1st thing, I'd give the gig back as it is no fun for anyone, IME. The band can't get going and the audience don't either so potential for staining the whole day which is not something I'd want to be responsible for. 2, not good for amps or keys either so why risk that equipment? If you must must must do it, then spec what gear you can use... but I can't get beyond asking myself why am I doing this..?? I'd be very pissed off that someone had booked me for this...as if I'd known I'd have vetoed it, certainly.

It's work and has to be done. I am happy if it turns out better than I was thinking it would,

Gallery have priced matched an Aguilar cab, which, iirc, was very very competively priced, but there needs to be give and take. For the convenience of having a central London shop, you will expect the cost of that to be passed on in some form. I'd far rather call them and see what they can do than go to an online store and I can't for the life of me work out how people can buy a bass NEW online without playing and seeing it. This is asking for trouble, IMO...but if you want to go to the hassle of returning the thing and there may be a cost to that as well... Me, I would rather drive 2 and half hours to Twyford after I have given them a quick call about what I am after... and see and hear it for myself. That extra effort will be worth it as I will get exactly what I want ( as I've demoed it ) and I don't sell the gear for a loss a few months later because I didn't do enough research or wasn't quite sure in the first place.. For this reason, I don't feel the need to go the Gallery ..though, of course, I would, if they had what I wanted. Both shops ( BassGear and The Gallery ) are great, as are GAK and I like Andetons as well. IMV, you need these outlets to see and hear your gear and you really REALLY don't want to see them disappear

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1403723925' post='2485699'] Ashdown being british (like Barefaced) means that the lovers tend to show lots of love around here, and the haters do the british thing of really really hating one of our home grown companies. Instead of secretly being quite pleased that us in the UK can have one of the top amp makers here in Essex we knock them down cause we don't like the sound the build quality or so on. I wouldn't mind so much but I don't really see it happening with other US or EU based brands. ............................ [/quote] Maybe they do, but just because it is British doesn't mean people have to be blind to what the products does for them.. I am very big on buy British but I'll only buy something that cuts it, otherwise I then switch to other western makers...but they have to cut it as well. The French buy French cars and must pretty maintain their car industry as no one else seems to rate them mich... oh well...that is for them. I'd love the U.K to have a creditable car manufacturer but we sold them ( the good ones ), iirc...or they weren't very good at all. For the record, all my basses, amps and cabs are U.K and U.S because I rate them as the best I have found.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403640865' post='2484911'] I think hores should be an individual expense unless the whole band are joining in... [/quote] we used to have a pact that we left the money back at the hotel...just to resist temptation and blowing it. Sometimes it didn't work..

[quote name='PTB' timestamp='1403607221' post='2484333'] I suspect most bass players at festivals will use IEMs and feed a DI to the PA so what kind of bass amp is on stage is irrelevant to what the crowd hears. It's likely to be whatever they endorse or whatever the promoter provides, as others have said. [/quote] In ears systems will be spec'd like everything else so it really goes to whether the band is permanent or not. if you leave the tour, chances are you wont keep the plugs and that is assuming the band can afford to kit the band out anyway.

Lights and full P.A are extras and you can split what you own with what the others own and take from a 6th share. Of course, your percentage of that 6th share is bigger than the lights and desk, probably, but you may want to do this by cost of unit or what it would could if you deemed them a must-have and therefore charge/split accordingly. This is key to the negotiations about what split you assign to what gear but I think you need to pursue this as it is starting to eat at you... The others have to be mature and recognise you have an issue. No toys out of pram but you need to discuss this but also be prepared that they may well say goodbye. You will, of course remind them, that they have to address the P.A issue from scratch... and all that that entails. Part of our P.A costs take into account the guy loading up at both ends into his car/van, the cabling and we are expected to help the set-up and break down at the gig, otherwise we would run into other problems where he would give us a complete hore charge and it would start at £100 per gig which would put pubs out of the equation. We also have to pay a bit more when the gigs allow to cover the smaller fees. Our base P.A charge is £20 at a pub and where are you going to get any sort of worthwhile P.A for that transported etc etc ... Reality check time... no one wants to pay more and they wont volunteer it otherwise we are not having this discussion..

There is really no argument if you supply over and beyond a couple of tops... It would be wonderful to have a top rig but then who is going to carry it. Can you split it between the cars travelling..?? and will they carry a bin..? It needs common sense and a dispassionate reasoning to make the case and the first response will be he is ripping us off etc ...but break down what he actually does and provides and what is would cost to replicate that.. and it isn't going to be £100. As they say...get real..!! unfortunately for the band who have had it pretty good so far..

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1403612503' post='2484433'] ............... you don't like them we get it. [/quote] Yep... was happy to leave it at that, but then people want to come back on it, and have asked me to elaborate, so..? I don't feel the need to battle against other's opnions all day...that is for them... mine are pretty consistant in this regard and I am sure I post against the grain again at some point. I'm pretty confident in what I know and think..

30 mins..happy with that. Don't see why it should take much more. Soundcheck mics a bit longer..

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1403608060' post='2484338'] The P.A angle to this is quite interesting as I own all of the P.A that my band uses. I invest in it, buy mics, D.Is cables, upgrade speakers, mixing desks stands,monitors, amps,lights. I just bought a couple of IEM sets, that they will have free access to also. I spend a lot of time ensuring everything works as efficiently as possible as I believe sincerely that a good sound gets gigs. I'm happy to do this, because i want us to sound as good as we can, so that we can get to the better paid gigs quicker. I hire the P.A and my skills to other bands for £200 to £300 per show. At the moment we are running through the gears doing pubs and tweaking the show, but in the new year we will be hitting the agents for better paid wedding and party gigs as we did for a couple of years before our new singer arrived in march. We intend to start at £750 and will be aiming for £1000 as a usual fee. How much would it be fair to ask them to pay for the P.A per show? [/quote] Well, I assume you have to run a van and you load up the vast majority..and all they do is help at the gig..?? I think for anything between £750 and £1k, they need to think of £100...which is at least half what you'd get elsewhere..? Of course, this will be quite a bone of contention when you broach it but ask them how much they could hire it in... as that is what they will have to do if they decide they don't like your 'new way'... If a band goes into a band P.A situation then the payback is long even at £100 a time.. This is my problem at the moment...

The top bands will get a truck load of choice for the backline. In their riders will be minimum requirements to be supplied and Ampeg and Ashdown are known quantities so they get to be shown the most. Players will have exposure on the kit so will know what they can cope with and choose accordingly. The backline will be made up from that and wheeled in per act. On lesser stages, there is less choice as changeover is tighter, so it makes sense to keep the technical consistant.

Sounds a good outcome. Good work.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1403604294' post='2484285'] Would another bass player have made the songs better than they are? IMO no. He got it exactly right - that's what makes him a great bass player. Not because his lines leap out of the speakers and slap you in the face. [/quote] That assumes you think the band were great, I didn't.

We pay a minimum of £270 for a gig so that means all gigs need to gross that or above otherwise we run through the kitty. Everyone has to pay for their own stuff but the bone of contention is that the bass, gtr, drums and keys might have upwards of £5k of gear each and the singer still wants to band to buy the P.A which is primarily ofr him to be able to do the gig..?? We may well put some of the band thru it which greys the area somewhat but this is our current split. 6 way split on the fee over £300, so that is 5 in the band and the same amount to go to P.A, lights and admin costs and the balance to the kitty. The maximum figure we pay out for gigs under £1k is £150 per head and therefore the kitty get a decent contribution. Max pay-out on the P.A is £100 so the guy who owns this can walk away paid £100 more. The only way to justify this is to sell the P.A back to the band over this period of time.

ok... didn't really want to rain on a parade as this is a tribute type thread but he is just adequate and as said above not likely to get in the way of the big egos or ego in the band in any sense. I just don't think there is anything about him that is great. He writes ok basslines that many enjoy and he is/was part of a hugely succesful band but the reason I call them all pretenders in a sense was because none of them has anything like an x factor apart from FM ..who wasn't a great singer by any means and played the showman side. I couldn't get onboard with that of form over substance. I really didn't like most of their product because of it, plus the songs were hugely chummy Many many people enjoyed their songs...that is a skill or marketing thing in itself but doesn't define them as great in my book. I only came on here to say that I wouldn't call him a great bass player when he plays what many many people can play... he just happened to be very lucky to end up in a very popular band. Nothing wrong with that...just not a 'great' bass player when nothing he does on the bass is outstanding, IMO.

I do think Weddings pay a deposit..it is expected and the norm, IMO. Most gigs of a certain stature will pay one.

now, that is funny..... gotta laugh.

The DB212 is the same size as the 410 but weight is about 20lb less. I'd swap a 410 for 212...same stack, less weight and 212 has bit more fullness than 2x210, IME

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1403547250' post='2483793'] Matters of taste aside, I think it is fair to say that John Deacon has a very distinctive style; No-one quite sounds or plays like him, and he brings a certain 'something' to the material which I'm not sure just anyone else could. JTUK, It's Interesting that you mention Entwhistle and Bruce as 'better'- I would consider their busy, noisy styles quite the antithesis of the things people appreciate about Deacon. That's not to say that they are worse players, but the approach is so different. It's like suggesting JJ Cale isn't very good on the guitar because Stevie Ray Vaughn exists. [/quote] I don't class them as 'better' either ( not my words ) and agree about their styles as you describe... I didn't class them as great bass players but did agree that at their time, they took the bass somewhere else... If you asked me what makes a 'great' bass player, I'd say technical and taste/class. Only Edwards would qualify on both counts out of that arbitary group, IMO.

Can't blame you for trying to do a decent thing but maybe the organisers would have thought about it a bit more if you had charged them something.. I am getting the idea that they maybe didn't respect your effort much which makes it a bit galling. We tend to take a stance that maybe appear to be arrogant to a degree..?? but it is something like, we aren't 'amateurs' so don't treat us as such. This is why we try and sound them out with what they are providing. Something that sorts the men from the boys is Beer festival P.A's, for example. If we spec that and they agree, then we know they have done their homework... Stage size, etc etc ... if events want everything free, then alarms bells tend to ring...sorry to say.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1403532273' post='2483606'] Eh? Nobody here is comparing JD to any other bass players - just saying that he has/had great taste and really added to the overall sound of one of the greatest rock/pop bands of all time (as judged by sales if nothing else). Why is that so hard to understand? [/quote] Ok, he has taste in that he doesn't overplay and sounds the part..like a hundred and one zillion others. If you like the band or are a big fan, you'll think he/they are great and that is fine. For me, not so great at all.... (but then I thought the whole band were pretenders anyway. IMO.) Why is that so hard to understand ?