Beer of the Bass

I had no idea quite how "difficult" he was until this evening when my wife pointed me towards the letter Bob Guccione released a couple of years ago. It's one of those things that can't be un-read. None of which changes the impact his music has had, of course, but I'd have been happier in the dark...

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1476699468' post='3156317'] Consider me envious http://basschat.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/%3C#EMO_DIR%23%3E/smile.png I've always loved John's instruments but never been able to afford one. Steve [/quote] It wasn't crazily expensive when I got it (about 15 years ago). I part-exchanged an amp for it at Southside Music in Glasgow, a tiny wee shop that always had interesting stuff. I'm told that Marc Duff from Capercaille was the original owner. He must have played it a lot, as the top is covered in pick scratches and I had a couple of cracks in the back repaired.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1476654794' post='3156108'] It's not what they're missing, it's what they have: excursion. A Beta 12 has 4.4mm xmax, a typical guitar speaker has 1mm or less. That allows a guitar speaker to go into compression and break-up mode at low power levels, the exact opposite of what you want a bass driver to do. [/quote] My guess would be that the character I'm hearing in the highs with the guitar drivers was the added harmonic content produced by that cone breakup. I like the Beta for bass, but it's cleaner than a guitar driver if that's what the OP was enjoying. Though it certainly goes in that direction more than many speakers used for bass.

The Eminence Beta 12 does have that presence peak which sounds good for bass, but having played guitar through them I feel like they're still missing something that I can hear with Celestions or similar guitar speakers. I can't put my finger on what it is, but the guitar speakers have something nice going on at the top end that the Beta doesn't have as much of, which makes them sound a little duller than the guitar speaker. That's my subjective opinion based on playing a guitar amp through the Beta and then through a couple of different guitar speakers (Celestion V30s and a WGS ET90), so it might be entirely in my head!

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1476559445' post='3155258'] * Any Mesa Boogie - throttled, constipated tone [/quote] I've heard a few people sound good with them, though I must say that John Scofield sounds so much better since he switched from Mesa to Vox and moderated his chorus pedal usage. I feel like their repuation as a "Swiss Army" amp is well deserved. With a Swiss Army knife I could open a bottle of wine, cut up food and trim my toenails, but I'd much rather have a proper corkscrew, kitchen knife or scissors to suit the task at hand.

I'd agree with the suggestion to find some to try out - the scale length and body dimensions vary so much between instruments that it really helps to play the model you're considering. It looks like the £130 Thomann model is a tweaked version of the Romanian made ones that you see in a number of shops, so you could probably find one of those to try. My own OM is a 1987 John LeVoi, which was heavily used by the original owner and is played-in almost to the point of being "reliced". It was referred to as an octave mandola when I bought it, but is large enough that it's sometimes presumed to be a short-scale bouzouki. The distinctions between instruments are quite blurry!

I had a quick look at the Sica website, and they don't appear to make a 700 watt rated 12" that matches the displacement Barefaced quote for their 12". So I'd guess that if both cabs were pushed to their limits the Barefaced would still have more output in the low end. Sica do have some pretty capable looking drivers, but it does look like the Barefaced still brings something extra to the table to justify the cost. Whether you need the extra output and which cab you prefer the tone of is up to you, and the Ashdown does look like a decent cab.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1476461894' post='3154593'] Looks like it. Great slacks too. [/quote] Are you stalking JT or something?

[quote name='NickA' timestamp='1476384409' post='3153889'] The Hidersine "all weather" stuff is more like 'cello rosin; hard, dry and quite long lasting .... though when I put some on my 'cello bow and went out to play in a miniature chamber orchestra for the evening ... I discovered it's not like 'cello rosin at all (I was kind of loud). [/quote] That reminds me, I once loaned a fresh cake of Nyman bass rosin to a fiddle player who was stuck without any at a gig. He was cursing me for weeks!

Didn't Casio used to advertise some of their home keyboards in the 80s, particularly in the run-up to Christmas? OK, they're perhaps as close to toys as musical instruments, but that's the only example I could think of.

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1476358647' post='3153587'] The last 4-string set I got was from an Ebay Seller in Poland. About £36 posted. I found that Thomastik strings were a bit like playing with wet string. The Sadowskys are a bit tighter but each their own. [/quote] Mine came from Bass Strings Online in the US and worked out as quite good value, but the pound/dollar rate was a bit more favourable then (which I'll say no more about for the sake of avoiding politics). Somehow they managed to arrive without my being asked for any customs fees, but I presume that doesn't always happen.

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1476352853' post='3153508'] Chromes for me, too. If you want real old skool, La Bella, but Chromes more versatile and an easier chpicce for someone making the switch from rounds. I've an idea the new Fender flats may be re-badged Chromes. They are very similar - gauges, specs, etc and even have the coloured ball ends. I suspect D'Addario is making them for Fender. [/quote] This has been discussed a few times over on Talkbass. It does look likely that Fender flats are made by D'Addario, but there are some differences in the materials and construction between the two. So there's probably some family resemblance but they're not simply re-badged Chromes. I'm using Sadowsky flats, which likewise are made by LaBella to a slightly different recipe than their own strings. Those have a reasonable balance between old-school thump and clarity, but are a couple of steps darker than Chromes.

Yes, that's the one. I've seen more mixed reports about the other model with the red and green sides.

[quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1476195443' post='3152180'] Thanks very much for posting that - nice playing! The pickup sounds pretty good as well - like you say, a bit "artificial" and compressed, but to be honest I'm struggling with my more natural sounding Revolution Solo pickup. When adjusted it can sound great, but live it's ridiculously sensitive to movement and having something a bit more even is what I'm looking for. Thanks again for taking the time to send that on. [/quote] I had a Revolution Solo for a few years, so I've been able to compare the two on the same bass. It was a bit more open in the high end than the J-tone, but for some reason I could never get it evenly balanced across all four strings and it could come across as a touch harsh and scratchy on my bass (even running into a preamp). The J-tone has more thickness to the sound, is more forgiving with fitting and positioning and the "plug it in and it works" convenience of it is nice. I'm thinking of moving back to my AKG C411 contact mic for jazzier gigs as it gets a bit more of a woody tone, but I'll certainly hang on to the J-tone.

[quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1476186942' post='3152041'] That would be great @Beer! Not to worry about the recording, I'm with @TPJ - my playing sounds rough without the the fun of beer and late nights [/quote] Here you go then; [url="https://thechaosquartet.bandcamp.com/track/caravan"]https://thechaosquartet.bandcamp.com/track/caravan[/url] This was recorded with the pickup running straight into my GK MB200 and using the pre-EQ DI output to the board. It sounds a little darker on this recording than it usually does in the flesh, but that should give you some idea. IMO it has kind of a compressed character and doesn't get the full acoustic character of the bass, but that's common to a lot of bridge-mounted pickups.

[quote name='tinyd' timestamp='1476175029' post='3151901'] I'm seriously considering getting one of those J-Tone pickups but I can't find any sound clips anywhere - if anyone can point me to any sound clips or videos I'd be most grateful! Cheers [/quote] I think there are some board recordings where I was using mine - I'll see if I can dig them out and send you a link later. It was a rough late-night performance at an event with free beer, so I've been a bit shy about posting them here...

The best choice will depend on what sort of setting he's playing in, whether it's going to include much arco playing and whether it's likely to be through backline or into the PA. I also have one of the J-tone pickups linked above, and it gives a solid, even bass sound which works well into my amp and sits well with a forceful drummer. On the other hand, it's not the most natural of sounds in settings where you really want to reproduce the acoustic sound of the instrument and it's not fantastic with the bow. They're good value and I like it as much as a more expensive bridge-wing pickup that I used for a while, so it's just a case of figuring out if that's what you need.

That looks promising; I can't imagine that not being good once it's finished. If you're up for passing the question on to your son I'd be curious to know who his supplier was for the transformers - are they off-the-shelf or custom wound for this amp?

A few years ago I was pretty busy, but right now I'm gigging less than I did, due to reasons not all that dissimilar to Geek99's. Infrequent gigging is a situation I can live with, but any time I've had a spell of not gigging at all I find that hard to deal with. At the moment I'm still getting out and playing, just somewhat less than weekly. But I guess I'm firmly out of the "never gigged" category. When I've had spells of not gigging, I tend to hardly pick up bass guitar at all, but somehow the double bass sustains my interest a little more. I play guitar around the house a fair bit too.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1475847088' post='3149200'] It's easier to make a high accuracy speaker using neo or alnico magnets than with ceramic magnets - the big difference is that the former are conductive metal alloys whilst the latter is a non-conductive sintered composite. I'd say that over 95% of the difference in tone between our 12XN and 10CR drivers is due to other things than magnet material. [/quote] I was trying to be a bit careful with how I worded things (saying certain ceramic drivers rather than ceramic drivers in general) as I don't know how much is down to the magnet material rather than the whole design approach of the driver. I'm just curious as to whether some of the distortions that those high accuracy modern drivers (many of which use neodymium magnets) might be designed to avoid are a part of what many bassists seem to like about less accurate drivers (many of which use ceramic magnets). So if bassists looking for a certain sound tend to find it in ceramic-driver cabs it might be as much correlation as causation, but still seems to occur.

Hey, if the tolex ever does peel, you could view it as an excuse to have it re-covered in red! But I'd hope it's something they've got sorted out by now. I wonder if they're using the water-based type of tolex glue which would be kinder on their staff and easier in terms of H&S paperwork than the old style solvent based stuff, but seems a bit more finicky in use. I find it interesting that they've gone for ceramic drivers with these, and it sounds like they capture a lot of what you like about the sound of ceramic drivered TKS cabs. I was sceptical about the ceramic vs. neo threads for a long time, but maybe there's something in the idea that certain ceramic drivers have some sort of characteristic colouration to them.

Other than being optimistically priced, is the concept a sound one for guitar use? And do the shaped bits and cutouts do much that a simple angled perspex screen wouldn't?

I'd be surprised if the Ashdown could match the output of the Barefaced when played at high volumes, simply because the sort of drivers that can do that tend to cost more than would seem likely for a cab at this price point. It could still be a pleasant sounding cab though, and looks like good value.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1475432483' post='3145875'] Anything Marshall that hasn't been modded. [/quote] I used to be quite fond of my brother's 70s JMP Master Volume combo, unmodded. That sounded good. I'd agree with all the mentions of the MG series though.

It looks like a solid-state amp, especially if it has a heatsink on the back. Does it come on immediately when you switch it on? Valves would take 30 seconds or so to start making sound.