Barking Spiders

Whether you like someone's voice is all about opinion sure but IMO you can also state objectively whether someone has a good singing voice or not. I'm a big fan of Talking Heads up to Speaking in Tongues and David Byrne's quirky vocals work well within that context. However, objectively speaking he's not really a singer at all. On the other hand I'm not a fan of Whitney Houston at all but I acknowledge that she could actually sing

Agreed, and to him you can add 90% of rock and pop 'singers' of the last 50 years, e.g. Jagger, the two AC/DC frontmen, Ozzy O, DL Roth, Morrissey, Bowie, Ferry, John Lydon, Joey Ramone, Bjork, Kate Bush, Madonna, David Byrne, Joe Strummer, Dylan, Bernard from New Order, Neil Young, Lou Reed, Axl Rose... People say, 'oh but their vocals suits their music'. Mebbe, but they sure couldn't sing in other any context, which 'proper' singers can. Fr'instance Bowie next to Bing on Little Drummer Boy sounds dreadful while both he and Jagger utterly ruined Dancing In The Streets

I might be considered one of the guitar Luddites. Like with cars, guitar design peaked decades ago; Gibson 335 and the Les Paul (late 50s), Fender Strat and Tele (early 50s), IMO later designs esp the flying V and other typically metal guitars are as ugly as fvck. I have an Epi Sheraton II as for my money nothing beats the 335 design. It is to guitar what the E-Type Jag is to the car. As those guitars mentioned have long been perfect why do any more to them?

I was talking about what is the difference is between a singer and a vocalist. There is are no alternative words for a bassist/bass player, guitarist, drummer.

I've Googled about for definitions re what's the difference but my take is different. Out in the webverse there's the view that a 'singer' is typically e.g. anyone who fronts a band and who doesn't typically have training, may not always hit the notes and can make up for lack of what's widely accepted as a traditionally good voice with one that's characterful or distinctive. A 'vocalist' on the other hand is considered to be musically trained, always sings in tune and naturally, as opposed to how Bowie, Ferry and that bloke in Suede sang/vocalised. I've always been of the opinion that 'singers' are those who can actually SING i.e. maybe have a 3+ octave range, are trained and can turn their hand to any styles. I've always thought it's vocalists who are not likely to have had proper training and who may only be able to pull it off in a specific band or genre. IMO most rock frontmen fall into this category while classical, soul and jazz performers belong to the former. Any thoughts on this matter?

If not, you can catch it on iPlayer over the next 27 days...assuming you're a Soul fan. Talking heads include the Holland brothers, Mavis Staples, Barrett Strong, Fred Wesley, Steve Cropper, Marcus Miller and Martha Reeves. Very good it is too.

Too darn right. I've heard no rock version of a classic soul tune that comes within a million miles of even being half as good. Whitesnake's Ain't No Love is overwrought compared to Bobby Bland's original version and The Black Crowes' take on the Otis classic just doesn't cut it. Just my 2 cents worth. Worse still are the many pub bands workmanlike job of Mustang Sally. The Wilson Pickett version still sounds the best (even more so than Sir Mack Rice's original) but I've yet to year a pub band singer with the pipes to do it or any Soul classic justice. To sing Soul you need to have a great set.

or better still... about music in general not just the bass as a good number of us I guess are music fans first and foremost

Over the last few days I've been playing a lot of trance from its heyday in the late 90s-early 00s. I'm less into the stuff with girly vocals and the somewhat formulaic breakdowns and snare rolls but the more progressive stuff, instrumental, multi-layered and without the breakdowns and snare rolls. Here's a particular fave from 2001

Yeeeahhh! Can't go wrong with George Duke. Who are the guys with him. Fkin excellent, the pair of them!

The thread on Stuart Zender got me briefly thinking about respected bassists whose reps are based on a small body of work. In his case it's mainly the first 3 Jamiroquai albums. There are a few other personal faves who didn't actually record much e.g. Michael Dempsey - really just the first two Cure albums plus Fourth Drawer Down and Sulk by The Associates Deon Estus - Wham's three and George Michael's first 2 solo albums. Stuart Morrow - New Model Army's first 2 albums and ....that's it! Derek Forbes - with Simple Minds 'when they were good ' period up to Sparkle in The Rain (half a dozen albums) over to youse....

Agreed. Without being a fan of the music but a fan of the basslines the first 3 albums are where it's at. Thing about SZ his rep's based on a pretty small body of work topped by those 3 albums, which gives me an idea for a thread.

Like a couple of others here I'm not much of a Jamiroquai but I've often listened to the first four albums just for the bass. I'd say other than Louis Johnson and Marcus Miller, SZ's my main goto for learning lines to master. Nice to hear he's a down-to-earth sort of geezer.

Yes thank you, now I get it 😁 Hmm, but any no talent tack can write absolute meaningless rhyming couplet ballcocks as Noel Gallagher has demonstrated a hundred or so times. Radiox describe him as a songwriting genius!!!! WTF...https://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/liam-gallagher/which-oasis-songs-did-liam-gallagher-write/

I need to know. All explanations gratefully received. So, more examples please of lyrics that are utter nonsensical ballcocks and what your own interpretations are. I'll start with the entire lyric of Jean Genie. The song is almost as old as I am and to this day I've haven't a firkin clue what it's about except Bowie must've been out of his tree on 'ludes, mescalin, Charlie or whatever his poison of choice was.

Just wondering about big mistakes bands, individuals and companies have made especially when turning something down thinking it wasn't going to do much biz. The bloke who turned down The Beatles is probably the most obvious one. I just tuned into Planet Rock briefly and heard how Herbie Flowers was paid just £17 as a flat payment for laying down the bassline to Walk on The Wild Side while Lou Reed must have been raking it in due to its often being sampled especially on Can You Kick It by a Tribe Called Quest, which is one of the best known and most played tracks in hip hop.

I do like Kruangbin and Mark Speer has fast become one of my fave electric guitar players. He carries each tune all the way through unlike most rock and metal players that mostly play power chords and then throw in a widdly solo for 10-20 secs. Laura is very easy on the eye which also helps and I've no shame in also admiring female musicians appearance as much as their playing. LL wears some great outfits and frequently looks stunning.

Here's Sara Lee with a monster sound playing on Damaged Goods by Go4. The recording quality is a bit Shiite but the tone cuts right through

I give a huge toss about her costumes......kinda. I'm not being facetious but with them being a 3-piece instrumental band where the drummist has a stripped down kit (unlike many 3-pieces e.g. Rush, Police) and there's no fancy stage show like other 3-pieces (e.g. Muse) her outfits are an essential part of the act IMO. If she wore sober coloured gear they actually could be quite dull live.

mebbe because they're less geeky/nerdy than male bass players?😉

Staind were/are bluddy woeful. They're one of those I originally alluded to that infested MTV playlists back in the 90s. I don't differentiate between post-grunge and nu-metal other than some 'nu-metal' bands incorporated rap into their sound. When I recall the likes of Breaking Benjamin, Puddle of Mud, 3 Doors Down, Shinedown, Godsmack, Theory of a Deadman, Papa Roach, Coal Chamber, Crazy Town etc blah I rate LB even higher for their first 2 albums and the best tracks off Choc.

Incidentally, check out the great bassline on Something Else, the last track on the debut album, with Julian Crampton totally slaying it!

There are actually hundreds of lady bass players in well known bands or known in their own right. Not many among classic rock or funk bands I see but loads in alt-rock or indie-bands, not just in all-female groups but also in mostly-men bands. My own faves are Tina Weymouth, Kim Deal, Sean Yseult (White Zombie) and Sara Lee (Gang of Four). I appreciate the skills of Tal Wilkenfield, Esperanza Spalding, Mohina Day etc but I just don't care for the genres they work in.

I never said Mastodon were Nu-metal. I said I saw them at the same festival and while LB put on a good show, Mastodon were as boring as f***. They just stood there, no audience rapport, nada. Dunno why they get all this kudos. Very dull. If LB sucks then Korn, Linkin Park, Mudvayne, Deftones and the rest of the nu-metal crowd suck at least equally. I agree the album name Choc Starfish.... is risibly puerile and that the next albums are all pretty poor but I still stand by the first two which means they at least had two good albums which is two more than every other nu-metal and post-grunge band. I'm not sure which country originated the worst new genres that went mainstream in the 90s, the USA or UK. The US produced trash like pop-punk/skate punk, nu-metal and post-grunge while in the UK we had to endure the dreck that was Britpop, Spice Girls etc, 'Madchester' and shoegaze. Let's not get started on the noughties which is also a low point.

Snap. I am too am mostly on a funk/soul trip at the mo. I do like a bit of the brothers, partly because Louis is my fave player. As I work I've been flipping between the Pasadenas first album and Hearsay by Alexander O'Neal, so here's a bit of both.. BTW why The Pasadenas never gained the popularity of Take That, Boyzone etc boggles my mind. They had better vocals and sharper moves.