SpondonBassed

Thanks for backing up my assertion BigRedX. Notation is as good as the knowledge and skill of the writer. It's just the same in ANY language. @ Coilte, that's a good suggestion thanks. My only worry is that I might [s]inflict[/s] display my karaoke skills. This thread has challenged me. I have a personality fault in that I am not good with authority figures. All my life it has been impossible for me to accept authority without question. Many people have this to some degree but I have it to the extent that it sometimes handicaps me. I cope with it on an everyday basis and occasionally it works very well for me. Most of the time however, I have to avoid situations where I feel trapped by authoritative figures otherwise I get into difficulty. I'd say that notation is an area of music where this manifests itself severely. Incidents at primary school are strong in my memory with one particular teacher. She had a very poor manner. I now believe that she disliked children. She was in charge of the school's theatrical productions. I refused to take part any more after a dress rehearsal for a school play that ended up with my public embarrassment before the whole school. I want to forget that incident but can not. Every so often something will happen to trigger the memory of that incident and I immediately become anxious. It's a shame because the music teacher was fine. I'd started to read and write notation in that class and was offered violin lessons. We moved out of the area before that could happen however and that was the last time that notation came up in school until secondary. My first years of secondary school were spent in boarding. That lasted two years before I walked away from it permanently. I went to the technical school instead after telling Dad he was wasting money sending me to expensive schools because I was already aiming for an apprenticeship in engineering. Fortunately he and Mum supported my decision and I got some really good offers from employers when I left the technical school three years later. Much as I'd like to become fluent in notation, it would serve little purpose. My eyesight prevents me from seeing clearly sometimes. Tab is slightly more easy to read and with its clear instruction, I can be up and running with a new tune in minutes rather than hours. If you've spent your early years learning notation you may well think it feels natural. To me it is unnecessarily complex to look at unless I am sat studying it for fine detail. The symbols for key signatures and incidental sharps or flats are particularly annoying. Sometimes I can't tell whether I am looking at a solid dot or the outline of one. I have vari-focal spectacles that are made for distance and laptop reading. That means they don't focus on the printed word very well. If I had money, I'd have another set made but I am on a tiny income and I don't claim benefits. The challenge for me in this discussion is to not loose my temper with some of the more authoritative comments that are made. There are members here who teach. If I respond badly to any of you, this explanation might help to understand that it is not a personal issue with anything you have said. It is more likely to be my own personal issue from the experience I had with one bad teacher in my formative years. You can't do anything about it so sorry if I come over as being abrasive sometimes. If I had it all to do again I would have tried to pick up on notation with my second primary school or even my third. Hindsight is a bugger. Thankfully TAB exists in many forms. The Internet exists to allow TAB sharing. Without TAB I would not have been able to pick up bass in my fifties again. Maybe this is why TAB could be considered evil... it allows people like me to join in?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504707430' post='3366777'] If there was to be an 'evil' side to TAB, I'd suggest that it's its very existence, surely designed by the Beelzebub himself as a sure-fire way of causing strife between musicians..! Those that use it: carry on. Those that don't: carry on. It's become akin to the Jonathan Swift fictitious debate on which end of a boiled egg should be opened..! Tolerance, anyone..? [/quote] I prefer a pint if you're buying Dad.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504705915' post='3366758'] If it matters [size=5][b]it can be accommodated in standard notation by a small note saying which string to play a particular note on.[/b][/size] I know it will sound different, the question is, 1) does it sound different enough to require every single note to also nominate the string it must be played on, 2) could/would a composer/arranger trust that the person playing the instrument can adequately interpret is such that the "tone" will be correct, thus not requiring the detail and 3) how do you know the tab has the notes sounded on the correct strings and doesn't contain an error? Based on evidence I'd say it were 1 no, 2 yes, 3 you don't. [/quote] Tab just shows you.

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' timestamp='1504704155' post='3366740'] Whenever I place sponge under my strings, at the bridge, it throws the intonation out. I've tried varying compositions of sponge and it always alters the intonation. I'm placing it under the strings of my classic vibe Precision at the bridge ashtray cover. When an in tune string is tuned at the 12th fret it will show 1 or 2 red leds on my Korg Pitch Black tuner. Does anyone else have this issue? [/quote] http://basschat.co.uk/topic/311212-the-joy-of-a-bath-sponge/page__view__findpost__p__3366661 The link to Carol Kaye's advice might help you here.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504704605' post='3366744'] ...but does it really matter which of those three ways are chosen, since they all sound the same pitch/note?... [/quote] Sometimes I'd choose a note on the B string up the neck for its thicker sound as well as to minimise my travelling up and down the fretboard. The same note on the E string is slightly different. Maybe I am the only one to notice as I'm playing but even with the exact same note there are tonal differences across strings that can lend to the feel of what I'm playing.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1504703756' post='3366733'] Depends on the instrument. If it's a transposing instrument like the bass guitar then you play the notes a octave lower than written. If it isn't (like tuba and trombone IIRC) then you play the notes as they are written. [/quote] That's why I don't play the suzaphone. They don't write much tab for it either.

I hear more and more about young adults living at home with their parents who don't drive [i]for ethical reasons[/i]. Hmm.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504702968' post='3366719'] I just know what all the notes are. It's never occurred to me that you can play an instrument without knowing what note you're playing. [/quote] Of course. You aren't in charge however. I've made my choice.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1504701877' post='3366699'] But that only works if that part of the score is written expressly for the bass guitar, otherwise there are three different ways to do it. [/quote] I may be wrong but isn't the bass part written always incorrectly to start with just to keep it on the stave?

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504702017' post='3366703'] So someone says to you to play 8th notes on a B, what do you do? [/quote] I have a low B and it isn't hard to work out how many octaves and alternatives there are. What do you do?

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701745' post='3366696'] At the same time...[i]if you know your fretboard...[/i] it can safely be said that notation tells you where to put your fingers. [/quote] Trouble is it relies on your association of two abstract things through learning those associations. Tab shows you.

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1504699553' post='3366661'] I think Carol prefers a [url="https://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips51.htm"]felt mute[/url] on top of the strings rather than a foam one underneath. [/quote] There are so many one liners I could go for here but not one of them is PC. Sorry, pass. Good link however. I wonder if that's similar in effect to the sweat band looking thingies that you see on sale for the nut end to damp the open strings?

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701394' post='3366689'] So..it's safe to assume that you don't know the location of the notes on the fretboard ? [/quote] I know my open strings. I have little use for note names other than that, if that's what you mean.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701162' post='3366681'] I agree. However it is necessary to know your fretboard first. In my experience a lot.. (granted..not all..).. of tab users don't know where the notes are on the fretboard. With tab, there is no need to know as you simply put your finger on for example, fret four of the first string etc. In this instance the note name makes no difference. [/quote] Tadda! Thanks.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1504699541' post='3366660'] If you want to sit around as a family and play those well known Funeral hits, TAB won't really help. [url="https://postimg.org/image/4v9zqvun7/"][/url] [/quote] Hahahahaha! Talking of one fingered grief... this topic is the place for it.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504699481' post='3366657'] Yes it does. Simple example: There's one way to do it on the (4 string) bass.....its as clear as a bell. [/quote] So... where do I put my finger again? I have a suggestion but it is not polite.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504698823' post='3366649'] I assume she picked up the tab when you went out for a meal. !! [size=2]Grabs his coat and runs...!!![/size] [/quote] Are you kidding me? As you well know you have to earn your place in the queue for her dowry when courting a colleen. She [i]scored[/i] a free lunch every time.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504696540' post='3366617'] ...That's the beauty of being polyglot; more doors are open. Being expert in only one or another language is fine, but limits one to only that lone system. More is more, not less. All is good. [/quote] I went out with a girl called Polly Glot once. She only spoke one language though - cash.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504696982' post='3366628'] ...I wrote a piece ages ago for oboe and 6 string bass, I wouldn't know how to start writing TAB for oboe . [/quote] I would have thought it was a challenge worthy of an accomplished musician like your good self. Heeheehee. Don't mind me, I'm not a musician, I'm not even a bassist. My whole life is a hack.

[quote name='Yank' timestamp='1504686822' post='3366504'] Thanks guys. There's a few different tunings that folks use, the main one being C G D A, like a tenor banjo which it was designed to give them a second instrument when Dixieland was on the wain and big band jazz was on the rise. Viola and mandola also use this tuning which if you capoed at the seventh fret is the same as a mandolin. Some tune them like the four high strings of a guitar, known as Chicago tuning. [/quote] [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1504689678' post='3366538'] Nice instrument. Has anyone tried ukulele tuning? My missus plays the uke and would like to try a tenor/4 string guitar, but is not keen on learning a new instrument. I foolishly implied it would be no problem tuning the same as the ukulele. I realise the strings would have to be swapped to maintain reasonable tension as a uke is not tuned low to high. Any ideas? [/quote] Has she seen a baritone uke yet? You can substitute the high G string for new low one to get incremental tuning too. You will need a wider slot at the nut and the saddle and bridge hole may need attention but it gives a nice vibe a bit like a Spanish guitar on the bigger body.

[quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1504650161' post='3366403'] Do those of you who use public transport ever feel uneasy about carrying your gear around, from a safety / security perspective? [/quote] Only when I carry one of my headless basses with me. The uneasiness is not from fear of theft or damage. It's because I carry them both in rifle cases and the authorities are extra vigilant for suspicious packages. I bet I get followed on street cams wherever I take one for a walk.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504692136' post='3366566'] ...Notation is a universal way of communication, TAB isn't, it's instrument specific, but as a means to learning something it's fine, if that's the course that your personal playing has followed. [/quote] Again, no. It is a form of communication into which you have to be educated. Hardly universal unless you consider the universe to be populated solely by standard notation readers. Not everyone is literate or educated. We are never going to agree on it being universally acceptable.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504688869' post='3366527'] I thought I'd adequately explained this - standard notation shows the pitch, from which you can deduce the fret and string (from knowing your instrument). It won't tell you exactly which string/fret it is (there may be a choice, depending on the pitch, ie notes below G#/Ab on a 4 string bass, there's a choice of 1....) but then it is often the case that tab doesn't have the best position, simply [i]a [/i]position that the tab-writer thinks is the best one. [/quote] Then tab just shows you where to put your fingers. Score does not. You can't convince me otherwise. Forget the content for a minute why don't you.

Why are we even talking about correctness? Both systems are dependent on good source material. Are you saying that there are [i]no[/i] poorly written scores? Whatever system you use, if you don't hear what you expect for a piece you are working up, you look at alternatives, modify, improvise, beg advice etc. whatever system you've been reading. Before any intellectual wannabes get on my back again this does not apply to orchestral arrangements as a general rule. GIGO

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504653128' post='3366413'] ...To those who say that tab shows you where to put your fingers.....so does standard notation!... [/quote] I don't agree.