SpondonBassed

[quote name='MoJo' timestamp='1504763951' post='3367072'] I recently spotted a Zoom B3 advertised locally, on Gumtree, for £70 or very nearest offer. I emailed the seller, asking if the item is still available, to which he replied, 'Yes it is, what's your offer?'. I offer £65 and say that I can collect it on Saturday. Later the seller emails me with the news, "Yours is the highest offer Mark, it's yours". The guy emails me his address and arrangements are made to pick it up on Saturday morning. Last night I receive an email stating, "Mark, I received offers over £100, so I'm going to have to accept those, unless you can match it?" I declined. What happened to 'It's yours'? I could understand it if the listing had just said 'Offers' but I've never been in a situation where you're expected to offer a very nearest offer more than the asking price. [/quote] It's a deal breaker. If you are desperate for that pedal you'd have to make another deal and really, why would you if the chappie couldn't honour the first one? Walk.

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1504768882' post='3367109'] The Frump, as I understand it, is not meant to work the same as an old school Motown style mute. It's for the slappers and tappers and is meant to only mute open strings and not fretted notes. [/quote] Is that the one that looks like a eighties' jogger's wrist band applied to the neck over the nut? I always thought it was a step in the direction of a leg-warmer revival. Be wary. That must be prevented at all costs. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1xO7RwTV4k[/media] Has history taught us [i]nothing[/i]?

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1504792908' post='3367358'] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X7qgBVnMfY[/media] [/quote] I will pass on that thanks Grangur. It's pointless since I will not learn notation. Why would I want wind myself up watching a YT vid?

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1504786487' post='3367288'] Yes, I get all that. But knowledge of the notes, intervals and theory is all independent of the ability to read notation which was at least the original question. In some ways learning theory using tab is more difficult (eg for C minor the standard notation will tell you which notes are flat, tab wont). You have to work backwards or remember the intervals. [/quote] I think in semi-tones mostly. I can't really think of a time when I needed to know where the sharps and flats are in a piece. Other than knowing sharp is a semi-tone up and flat is a semi-tone down I've never needed to know. I practice chromatic, major and minor scales sometimes. That's it. Like the post above, I remember dynamic shapes that sound good. If it sounds bad either the shape I tip-toe out on the fretboard is wrong or my timing is off somewhere.

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1504775703' post='3367184'] One thing that really hasn't been touched on here at all is that there is such a learning difficulty known as [b]Notation Dyslexia[/b]. Much like Dyslexia which is more understood in reading and writing it manifests itself in the same ways. As an example, even with proper reading glasses (if needed) "symbols seem to move on the lines" to quote one of my students. This is even more of a problem when looking at notation where lots of information is crammed on to one page. Even for some there's an extended moment of trying to decipher the key of B major from E major - long before starting the piece. For this reason and many of the advantages noted above I teach [i]combined[/i] Notation and Tablature. (As well as individually). I actually teach methods to help speed up Tablature reading. As an example and certainly not a description of my entire approach, I demonstrate how to improve by correcting the mistakes (covering music theory) and then making it more efficient to play (physical understanding of the instrument). Since Tablature tends not to have a set standard, other than borrowing symbols from 'standard notation', it makes it easy to manipulate, much like the way that many write crib sheets in the absence of sight reading. This has worked particularly well; some of my students have gone from the class room to gigs over in Europe. Finally, when it comes to teaching, my approach is entirely different from many, some of which I have shadowed and cringed as students have become embarrassed and tangled. I guess what I want to add here is that I guess there are more ways than one to crack that initial egg and they should all be explored and we should always keep learning. Even for those who think they know it all and are somehow better than others. Stay humble, stay positive. [/quote] That's the most interesting thing I have read in this topic. You wont thank me for saying that my first response to "Notation Dyslexia" was to type LOBBOX! but as I read on I realised that you seem to have a better appreciation of the very nub of this topic than any other member who has contributed. Respect. There are only a few teachers who I genuinely respect and today I added your name to the list.

I tthink Peter Paul and Mary have the basis for a new verse to this song... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgXNVA9ngx8

[quote name='honza992' timestamp='1504722478' post='3366914'] Ha ha ha, ironically I come from a family of tool makers. Or at least my mother does, and Archdale is the name that will go on the headstock. Admitedly they made machine tools not too relevant to guitar making, but I guess the principles are the same. [And if anyone has any memories of working with Archdale machine tools, or even more amazingly still uses one I'd love to hear about it.] [/quote] https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/James_Archdale_and_Co You have an impressive maternal heritage if this is the firm. [quote name='honza992' timestamp='1504723353' post='3366920'] Just a quick question today. I'm going to use General Finishes High Perforance as the top clearcoat on both the body and neck. It's a water based polyurethane which seems to be pretty forgiving in application (I'll be spraying it) but it lacks the warmth an 'pop-ability-ness-itude' which oil based finishes have. So, does anyone have any idea how I can pop grain under a waterbased finish? Without using dye or stain? And ideally without darkening the maple? If I can I'd like to keep the maple as pale as possible. I'm hoping the answer is shellac, so today I started doing some tests on some scrap. On the left is some Zinsser SealCoat, which as I understand is 2 pound blonde shellac. I've diluted it with meths to make a 1 pound cut. On the right is some garnet shellac, made fresh from flakes, also a 1 pound cut. [Image deleted] I'm going to try applying each of them to some maple scrap, then seeing if I can gently sand it back so that the maple remains natural in colour, but the shellac that has sunk into the grain will still pop the flame in the top/neck. Anyone know if this is going to work? Or can anyone think of any other way of poping grain but not darkening the wood too much? That's compatible with polyurethane? [/quote] I'd be inclined to try a bleaching solution on the bare wood first as an experiment. I haven't tried it but it may help keep the pale quality of the maple better once you start with the finishing coats. If the treated wood rejects the finishing coat it would not be a great idea of course so it's just a suggestion to play with.

Thanks for backing up my assertion BigRedX. Notation is as good as the knowledge and skill of the writer. It's just the same in ANY language. @ Coilte, that's a good suggestion thanks. My only worry is that I might [s]inflict[/s] display my karaoke skills. This thread has challenged me. I have a personality fault in that I am not good with authority figures. All my life it has been impossible for me to accept authority without question. Many people have this to some degree but I have it to the extent that it sometimes handicaps me. I cope with it on an everyday basis and occasionally it works very well for me. Most of the time however, I have to avoid situations where I feel trapped by authoritative figures otherwise I get into difficulty. I'd say that notation is an area of music where this manifests itself severely. Incidents at primary school are strong in my memory with one particular teacher. She had a very poor manner. I now believe that she disliked children. She was in charge of the school's theatrical productions. I refused to take part any more after a dress rehearsal for a school play that ended up with my public embarrassment before the whole school. I want to forget that incident but can not. Every so often something will happen to trigger the memory of that incident and I immediately become anxious. It's a shame because the music teacher was fine. I'd started to read and write notation in that class and was offered violin lessons. We moved out of the area before that could happen however and that was the last time that notation came up in school until secondary. My first years of secondary school were spent in boarding. That lasted two years before I walked away from it permanently. I went to the technical school instead after telling Dad he was wasting money sending me to expensive schools because I was already aiming for an apprenticeship in engineering. Fortunately he and Mum supported my decision and I got some really good offers from employers when I left the technical school three years later. Much as I'd like to become fluent in notation, it would serve little purpose. My eyesight prevents me from seeing clearly sometimes. Tab is slightly more easy to read and with its clear instruction, I can be up and running with a new tune in minutes rather than hours. If you've spent your early years learning notation you may well think it feels natural. To me it is unnecessarily complex to look at unless I am sat studying it for fine detail. The symbols for key signatures and incidental sharps or flats are particularly annoying. Sometimes I can't tell whether I am looking at a solid dot or the outline of one. I have vari-focal spectacles that are made for distance and laptop reading. That means they don't focus on the printed word very well. If I had money, I'd have another set made but I am on a tiny income and I don't claim benefits. The challenge for me in this discussion is to not loose my temper with some of the more authoritative comments that are made. There are members here who teach. If I respond badly to any of you, this explanation might help to understand that it is not a personal issue with anything you have said. It is more likely to be my own personal issue from the experience I had with one bad teacher in my formative years. You can't do anything about it so sorry if I come over as being abrasive sometimes. If I had it all to do again I would have tried to pick up on notation with my second primary school or even my third. Hindsight is a bugger. Thankfully TAB exists in many forms. The Internet exists to allow TAB sharing. Without TAB I would not have been able to pick up bass in my fifties again. Maybe this is why TAB could be considered evil... it allows people like me to join in?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504707430' post='3366777'] If there was to be an 'evil' side to TAB, I'd suggest that it's its very existence, surely designed by the Beelzebub himself as a sure-fire way of causing strife between musicians..! Those that use it: carry on. Those that don't: carry on. It's become akin to the Jonathan Swift fictitious debate on which end of a boiled egg should be opened..! Tolerance, anyone..? [/quote] I prefer a pint if you're buying Dad.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504705915' post='3366758'] If it matters [size=5][b]it can be accommodated in standard notation by a small note saying which string to play a particular note on.[/b][/size] I know it will sound different, the question is, 1) does it sound different enough to require every single note to also nominate the string it must be played on, 2) could/would a composer/arranger trust that the person playing the instrument can adequately interpret is such that the "tone" will be correct, thus not requiring the detail and 3) how do you know the tab has the notes sounded on the correct strings and doesn't contain an error? Based on evidence I'd say it were 1 no, 2 yes, 3 you don't. [/quote] Tab just shows you.

[quote name='Bloc Riff Nut' timestamp='1504704155' post='3366740'] Whenever I place sponge under my strings, at the bridge, it throws the intonation out. I've tried varying compositions of sponge and it always alters the intonation. I'm placing it under the strings of my classic vibe Precision at the bridge ashtray cover. When an in tune string is tuned at the 12th fret it will show 1 or 2 red leds on my Korg Pitch Black tuner. Does anyone else have this issue? [/quote] http://basschat.co.uk/topic/311212-the-joy-of-a-bath-sponge/page__view__findpost__p__3366661 The link to Carol Kaye's advice might help you here.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504704605' post='3366744'] ...but does it really matter which of those three ways are chosen, since they all sound the same pitch/note?... [/quote] Sometimes I'd choose a note on the B string up the neck for its thicker sound as well as to minimise my travelling up and down the fretboard. The same note on the E string is slightly different. Maybe I am the only one to notice as I'm playing but even with the exact same note there are tonal differences across strings that can lend to the feel of what I'm playing.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1504703756' post='3366733'] Depends on the instrument. If it's a transposing instrument like the bass guitar then you play the notes a octave lower than written. If it isn't (like tuba and trombone IIRC) then you play the notes as they are written. [/quote] That's why I don't play the suzaphone. They don't write much tab for it either.

I hear more and more about young adults living at home with their parents who don't drive [i]for ethical reasons[/i]. Hmm.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504702968' post='3366719'] I just know what all the notes are. It's never occurred to me that you can play an instrument without knowing what note you're playing. [/quote] Of course. You aren't in charge however. I've made my choice.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1504701877' post='3366699'] But that only works if that part of the score is written expressly for the bass guitar, otherwise there are three different ways to do it. [/quote] I may be wrong but isn't the bass part written always incorrectly to start with just to keep it on the stave?

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1504702017' post='3366703'] So someone says to you to play 8th notes on a B, what do you do? [/quote] I have a low B and it isn't hard to work out how many octaves and alternatives there are. What do you do?

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701745' post='3366696'] At the same time...[i]if you know your fretboard...[/i] it can safely be said that notation tells you where to put your fingers. [/quote] Trouble is it relies on your association of two abstract things through learning those associations. Tab shows you.

[quote name='fftc' timestamp='1504699553' post='3366661'] I think Carol prefers a [url="https://www.carolkaye.com/www/education/tips51.htm"]felt mute[/url] on top of the strings rather than a foam one underneath. [/quote] There are so many one liners I could go for here but not one of them is PC. Sorry, pass. Good link however. I wonder if that's similar in effect to the sweat band looking thingies that you see on sale for the nut end to damp the open strings?

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701394' post='3366689'] So..it's safe to assume that you don't know the location of the notes on the fretboard ? [/quote] I know my open strings. I have little use for note names other than that, if that's what you mean.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504701162' post='3366681'] I agree. However it is necessary to know your fretboard first. In my experience a lot.. (granted..not all..).. of tab users don't know where the notes are on the fretboard. With tab, there is no need to know as you simply put your finger on for example, fret four of the first string etc. In this instance the note name makes no difference. [/quote] Tadda! Thanks.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1504699541' post='3366660'] If you want to sit around as a family and play those well known Funeral hits, TAB won't really help. [url="https://postimg.org/image/4v9zqvun7/"][/url] [/quote] Hahahahaha! Talking of one fingered grief... this topic is the place for it.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1504699481' post='3366657'] Yes it does. Simple example: There's one way to do it on the (4 string) bass.....its as clear as a bell. [/quote] So... where do I put my finger again? I have a suggestion but it is not polite.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1504698823' post='3366649'] I assume she picked up the tab when you went out for a meal. !! [size=2]Grabs his coat and runs...!!![/size] [/quote] Are you kidding me? As you well know you have to earn your place in the queue for her dowry when courting a colleen. She [i]scored[/i] a free lunch every time.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1504696540' post='3366617'] ...That's the beauty of being polyglot; more doors are open. Being expert in only one or another language is fine, but limits one to only that lone system. More is more, not less. All is good. [/quote] I went out with a girl called Polly Glot once. She only spoke one language though - cash.