CH161
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I think Joebass may be too modest to mention it... But on another thread he has a transcription of a great Jeff Berlin Solo. I've taken the liberty of posting the url link here: http://joebrittonbass.com/blog/ Fabulous work Joe! Very good indeed. Also this should help answer the question once and for all - why learn the treble clef!
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[quote name='Joebass' timestamp='1465469524' post='3068486'] I would say that the confusion arises from being unfamiliar with the notation. Many players associate a given pitch with a particular fingering (especially woodwind). Seeing an 8va indication rather than a change of clef would cause hesitation and force a player to think about what they should play. 8va (ottava sopra) should really only be needed for keyboard/harp/tuned percussion where every octave is physically the same (It is occasionally used for very high violin/piccolo/flute). [/quote] I agree with all of this. I suppose the thread has wandered away from the OPs original question as we are now discussing 8va and formal orchestration/arranging. Interesting and good points being made though. Just for clarity, in my earlier comments I was thinking only of bass - and primarily electric bass - and players who read bass clef only. To go back to the OPs question, yes it's a good idea to learn the treble clef too.
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[quote name='Joebass' timestamp='1465386178' post='3067706'] FWIW, 8va indications should only be used with the treble clef. If there is a higher pitched clef available, it should be used in favour of an 8va sign. [/quote] Quite true, and certainly correct classically. It is also true that it could cause confusion as the bass is already sounding an octave lower than written. However, a lot of players I have worked with don't read treble clef too well, or consider the bass as a transposing instrument. The 8va tells them what to do and they tend to understand it. Conventions are important and I'm all for them, but most players can play what they see an octave higher without issue. I suppose it comes down to context really. It certainly wouldn't be right in a classical part I agree.
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We're in full agreement here. In fact, these days to save any awkward situations, I try to get an mp3 demo of the track before a recording if possible. It helps to see what the writer actually had in mind and wanted. This has been more valuable over the last few years when more and more parts have been taken directly from the midi played in on a keyboard and sent over to Sibelius or similar without any further tweaking or checks. At the end of the day it's all about communicating to the player what you want them to play, but as in all trades, the hired hand shouldn't make the writer - client - look inept on the session! We do that later in the pub! I see some real shockers!
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[quote name='Higgie' timestamp='1465318038' post='3067098'] I've always found this to be a bit strange. Personally I just notate everything an octave below and mark it as 8va. If there are going to be too many leger lines, to me it makes sense to keep the clef the same, just write it out normally and indicate it's to be played an octave up, rather than change the whole clef, as if the notes are ascending anyway, you'll still get leger lines. Is it just me? [/quote] No it's not just you. I much prefer the 8va method myself, especially if sight reading and I certainly write using the 8va. The thing is, there are a lot of writers/arrangers who don't do it this way. If I get a Sibelius part to learn, then I will often adapt it to my prefered method of reading. These days though I'm seeing more PDFs that have been extracted from the Sibelius software, and frankly I see all sorts of oddities on the parts. I think we're in a situation these days where the parts can be written by anybody, and still look on the face of it like proper music. In the studio with the producers, writers, engineers all watching the clock and you in the booth trying to make sense of the part - it makes sense to have the tool kit handy - part of which, for me at least, is knowing the clefs.
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[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1463744533' post='3053759'] Also worth noting that the prevailing convention in writing bass music tends towards writing higher register/thumb position passages in treble clef to avoid prolonged ledger lines. [/quote] Absolutely! It makes a lot of sense to be familiar with both bass and treble clefs. Both for playing and writing. It's quite common to see a single staff part which changes from bass to treble clef when the notes are getting high.
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Ok great. Was it done in Berkeley by any chance? -
Looks great. Is it Daphne Blue? May I ask who did the refin?
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Lovely looking bass - worthy of a Sunday bump! -
I just sold my lovely AVRI Jazz to Juande. Super fast payment and a great pleasure to deal with, as always. Cheers J ! Cliff
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Up for sale is my extremely nice LPB Jazz. It's one of the recent AVRI US Fenders - as most of you know, these AVRI's have been very well received. This one was bought new in 2014 but as the close up pictures show, it was constructed in 2013. A superb bass - looks great with the matching headstock too. It is the 1964 American Vintage Reissue. It even has clay dots. All the 60s mojo without the scratchy pots (or the ticket price!). Has its original case and all the candy that came with it. Testing at mine in South London not a problem. [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_0359_zpszwk393fg.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_4263_zpsducmcmcu.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_4267_zps5zteenaj.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_4266_zpsvqcj6tmc.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_4265_zps0jaib1zv.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_0361_zpsjpz4ypem.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_0360_zps2btczatn.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/AVRI%2064%20LPB/IMG_0357_zps5np9jwnh.jpg.html"][/url] -
Another stunner Si, very nice!
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This is a very interesting topic. I like the fact that Bilbo's initial post is making a statement rather than asking a "how do I?" question. From my own perspective, I find that a deadline really helps push things along. Without a deadline meandering and countless options take hold and nothing ever gets finished off. This deadline can be either real or self-imposed, but the idea that you actually 'have' to finish something by a certain date really helps me get a move on with things - and actually get them finished.
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Owen is a great buyer. He just bought my Apogee. Paid quickly and thoroughly pleasant to deal with throughout. Thanks Owen. Cliff
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In fairness I wasn't clear - I meant if we want to understand modality etc we're probably better off researching with books. It's a huge subject and difficult to make a good concise point here on the thread. I wasn't aiming a comment at you.
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Wow, I don't know why you feel the need to speak in this tone really. I was trying to make a simple point. The history of Western music is very clear. I really don't want to get into an argument about something so uneccesary. Goodnight.
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I'm not getting into this - time to buy a book folks.
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The OP asked about F# to F# in the G major scale - that would be the Locrian mode. If he'd asked A through to A in the G major scale (with the F# or raised 6th) then that would be Dorian. Modes are scales. The main point about them is the relationship they have within the 'Key' of a piece of music. Our western system favours chords built in triads, I, IV and V being the strong tonal centres to define Key. With the example of 'So What', the Key signature is that of C major, yet the tonal character has a root of D and the sound is minor. so in this example chord I (D min) is more normally chord II of C major. We are up one tone from the major Key centre. It is therefore Dorian because we use chord I, IV and V not as the expected Cmaj (I),F maj (IV) and G maj (V) but D min (I) , G maj (IV) and A Min (V). These chords all belong to the Key of C major - but we have shifted tonality within the key by one step in the key's scale. If we were actually in D minor (not modal), we would expect the key to have one flat (Bb), as D min is the relative minor of the key of F major (One flat Bb). It's all about the Key...Who said theory wasn't fun!
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[quote name='vittoriosciascia' timestamp='1457426426' post='2998274'] sorry, but you are concerned or you are a collector of photos? [/quote] Oh dear!
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Great condition Apogee One. Owned from new but only used a couple of times. Boxed with all cables. XLR input (with pahntom power if needed) and line in for guitar/bass etc. Great little unit. Will post free to UK. Paypal friend/bank transfer or cash on collection. Could meet London central. [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/Apogee/IMG_5229_zpsawy9806u.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/Apogee/IMG_5227_zpsncckki5h.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s47.photobucket.com/user/CHinvisible/media/Apogee/IMG_5221_zpsabt1olpj.jpg.html"][/url] -
That's the business! Nice one Gareth! It's a nice helpful community here on Basschat.
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Use Photobucket or similar and link to your ad.
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OK...PM sent! -
Very nice scales! It should be noted, these are not the dodgy old bathroom type.
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Good pics of the restoration. I was unable to read the neck date - are you able to read it? Is the original guard shield included? Why did you not put it back on?
