Al Krow

AndyT and I will disagree on this but, whilst they are both likely to be great instruments, personally I would go for an almost new BBP34 over a 30 year old BB3000 every time if they were similarly priced. YMMV etc.

I'm always up for a special BC deal Mark! But isn't @P-T-P already after yours (just needs to get his BBP34 away)... My only hesitation is that one of my 'whites' (BB1025) is just playing really sweetly right now and I'm not sure whether I would notice / appreciate the step up to your luverly bass.

Thoughts on pricing chaps? About right, given the ding in the headstock? I'm about to pm the seller, so views welcome!

Dave - excellent that the discussion has been useful / interesting (and not just a case of me and Cuzzie sounding off!) FWIW my own view is that the pups are perhaps the single biggest driver of tone (together with strings) on any given bass. Keep us updated on where you get to with your P bass.

Cool. Does seem to be the consensus to have the Thumpinator right at the start of the pedal board signal chain (and in fact that's also Thumpinator own recommendation on this). As mentioned above, I've got mine set up Thumpinator --> Spectracomp-->rest of board, with those first two pedals 'always on'. For the first time, I've been actually able to hear a discernible improvement to my tone from a compressor and have finally (believe me it's been a skeptical journey! 😂) convinced myself that compression could add value.

Yup and back in the real world, retailers are going bust quicker than you can say "Debenhams". If that was positive, I hate to think what your bad experiences of retailers must have been, then.

Appreciate you aren't suggesting otherwise, but it will obviously depend on where the HPF is set to cut from. If you set it to cut in the audio frequencies (and many folk will set their variable HPFs to start cutting at e.g. 80 kHz) it's clearly going to impact what you hear. Makes sense - you would hopefully expect a tighter sound from your speaker with the sub muck removed resulting in significantly reduced 'unnecessary' speaker excursion. And optimise by putting the HPF before the compressor - agreed?

Fair enough. But if you follow that through to its logical conclusion you don't steer anyone away from or to anything, whatsoever. Because "we all play differently and through different rigs".

$1,400 retail in the US will work out pretty close to £1,400 in the UK once you've add transport, Customs duties and 20% VAT.

I've certainly not spent any time at all with Black Labels our Haüssel's, that's certainty true. But all the comments about them seem to be positive, which definitely can't be said for Delano's. I have spent about 4 years with Delanos on my goto Sandberg TM4. They're not bad at all but are indeed hi-fi / polite / tame, whatever adjective you prefer. If I was buying again, I'd want more. I very much prefer the Nord big singles on my Ibbys and the Yammy pups on my Yammys to the Delano's on my Berg. No question. That's been my A/B. There does seem to be a bit of one way journey for Berg owners and it is: Delano's --> Black Labels / Haüssel's. I don't hear about anyone going in the opposite direction? There's actually a very similar thing with Ibby basses (and folk don't seem to get quite so hung about it, 'cos it's just accepted as being what it is): the Barts on the Standard range are pretty universally regarded as being bland / tame in comparison to the 'throaty' Nord big singles on the SR premium range. It's a one way street with those pups too with no one going back to the standard Barts when they've experienced the Nords. Hey - this for me is just about sharing experience and honest best practice, between us. Just as I would say to anyone thinking about getting an Ibby for the first time: I recommend steering clear of the Barts on the SR Standard range, I would say the same about the Delano's on Bergs. YMMV etc.

Haha - mine was actually a genuine Q. It's always good to see where folk have voted with their feet. I take it from your response you have zero Delanos in your herd? Häussel and Black Label seem to be the aficionados choice for Bergs. Wish they came as 'standard' in basses costing > £1k.

That is a very interesting insight indeed, thanks dB. (And completely not wood related either).

You've currently got several(?) Bergs, what pups have you got on each of yours?

May just have got lost in translation? adjective 1. (= fundamental) Grund- [problem also, reason, issue] Haupt- [points] wesentlich [intention, purpose] eigentlich [indifference, problem] grundsätzlich there’s no basic difference es besteht kein grundlegender Unterschied the basic thing to remember is ... woran man vor allem denken muss, ist ... his knowledge is rather basic er hat nur ziemlich elementare Kenntnisse the furniture is rather basic die Möbel sind ziemlich primitiv basic salary/working hours Grundgehalt nt/-arbeitszeit f basic vocabulary Grundwortschatz m 2. (= essential) notwendig plural the basics das Wesentliche to get down to (the) basics zum Kern der Sache kommen to get back to basics sich auf das Wesentliche besinnen

Hmmm...wonder what's driving this 'bargain basement' approach on pricing? I guess the simple answer is in the statement: "LOADS of stock too...." Must be annoying for anyone who has paid a 'full fat' price for their Berg and maybe also explains the relatively 'good value' pricing for used ones? If you want to charge a premium price for your product, you can't have half your potential customer base thinking "oh, if only the pups weren't so polite / hi-fi / tame / lifeless**, I'd definitely be up for spending > £1k on one of those". Maybe time for Berg to up their game? Appreciate this is just one former owner's opinion of course, and should be treated accordingly! **delete as applicable

Well that's certainly been my view, but there's clearly another school of thought which says pretty much the opposite. Are they essentially pushing a gospel of snake oil which is not based on science? Are we saying that the wood of a bass is mostly about: - look, feel, finish, durability and weight and sustain (all important factors, for sure) - but has little impact on tone? Oh dear, I seem to have side tracked my own thread within 5 posts...😂😂😂

Is that correct? If so, then the whole debate around tone woods seems a bit otiose (sorry one of my fav words and totally appreciate the opp to sneak it in when I can 😀)

Fundamental plus harmonics = overtones. The musical notes we hear. Simples If a low E fundamental is 41 Hz, how are the sub harmonics being generated and where are they primarily appearing in the signal chain? Apologies if this is a noddy / well understood point, but I'm struggling to get my head around the string vibrations necessary to produce a wave at < 41 Hz on an E string, so I'm guessing it's a feature of the interaction of that 41 Hz (or any other plucked note) with the body of the bass and woods which are then picked up by the pups?

You're not going to 'hear' anything much at all if you have your HPF set to 40Hz on a 4 string and 20 Hz on a 5 string. The low E on a 4 string is 41 Hz and the low B is 31 Hz. So you're already cutting at below what the bass is putting out (and indeed a frequency range below what most cabs are able to convey with any authority in terms of us being able to hear). What you should notice is less speaker excursion because the HPF is eliminating the energy diverting sub-sonic 'crud', and thereby allowing the speakers to work more efficiently in the audible frequency ranges. Fyi - the Thumpinator cuts at 28 Hz. If you've not seen the impact it has on speaker excursion, then the linked video clip is worth watching and listening to through a pair of headphones - you're not going to hear much difference, but you can easily see how much less hard the speakers are having to work! I use my Thumpinator at the start of my signal chain as a 'crud cleaner' and then into a Spectracomp which can then do its thing on just the audio frequency range and will be, itself, working more efficiently, the benefits of which then flow into the rest of my pedal board --> amp --> cab.

I wonder if any retailers would do a replacement with the Black Label pups without charging for existing unwanted / surplus Sandberg ones or Delanos? Anyone had any positive experience of this.

I've taken the really lazy option of...just using a Thumpinator (but then I only have a large board). 😀 In lieu of your mini board - I'm really tempted by the B1 Four X as a stand alone mini gigging board. I think your earlier post about it having the same DSP as the B3n has got me a little excited about this forthcoming pedal (out mid May??). It seems to have combined a compact form with a decent interface and decent DSP i.e. it takes some of the best features of the MS-60B and and B3n and puts them into a very affordable package. Oh yes the X rated version has an expression pedal. ...Shame: I've discovered it's got a plastic chassis which puts a bit of question-mark over how rugged the B1 Four is going to be.

Not sure why it's taken so long for me to spot this but the Mooer GE 300 also does Synth! (Probably 'cos Mooer seem to be taking forever getting this launched?) "There’s also the Synth Engine, a new tri-voice polyphonic synthesis module with options for wave form, pitch, filters and arpeggiators - with no special pickup or guitar modifications required." If my current pedal board could (theoretically) be replaced by a Helix Stomp and a Panda Future Impact ,then it seems to me that the GE 300 could, in turn, potentially replace both those and it comes with the bonus of an expression pedal.

£600 budget? He's going to need a decent amp to pair with any of those cabs and nice as they are, they are going pretty much blow the entire budget methinks. This, however, could seriously tick a lot of boxes! They're selling for nearly £900 new.

Ok cheers. I guess the Nano is likely going to be the smallest board to let you get a PSU underneath.

What are the above two boards like for putting a 'flat' isolated PSU underneath e.g. a Ciocks DC5 or a 1SpotCS6? That would be an important feature for me with any board I was getting.