Al Krow

Interesting that you found the RCF subs to be noticeably better. Can you remember which model you used? The RCF 705s look like a decent compromise of weight/power but won't be able to compete price wise with the Altos.

I'm very interested in hearing whether B6 and B2-4 users are finding the additional DSP on their multis is a definite step up in "sound" from the B1-4? One aspect that might be noticeable is that some of my effects patches on my B1-4 are quite noisy, but I deal with that by using the ZNR (noise gate) sim as standard across most of my patches. If the ZNR is not needed on the B2-4 and B6 then that, in itself, is a good sign!

Just came across the Bass #9 setting - makes for a really good tight-tracking octave up!

I think you may be right about the MS-60B+ ! Compared to the B1-4: - the MS-60B+ has got 6 slots per patch (one more than the B1-4), 100 patch memories (vs 50 on the B1-4); better processor & upgraded sims, ability to send a split signal to PA (e.g. with cab sim) and to amp (e.g. with no cab sim), more compact form factor; - the B1-4 has drum machine, basic looper, headphone capability, aux in and ability to edit using PC compatible software - all features I make use of and would miss. On top of all that it's ridiculously good value.

Oh that's interesting - they've set up the new MS-60B+ with 6 slots on each patch. Wonder why the difference between the two?

Totally agree about the ZNR ("Zoom Noise Reduction") being a must - that's a standard block on pretty much all my B1-4 patches.

Not for me, but if it scratches folk's multi-fx itch in a way that a bunch of other multis don't then it's got a market, just as vinyl records have.

This is the MS-60B+ thread, the clue's in the title 😁 I'm planning on getting the MS-60B+ (as you were on Sunday evening apparently?) which is basically a cut down B2-4, in stomp box size, which will be easy to incorporate as part of a pedal board but maybe with a little midi pedal for live use.

Ah yes that one's a very different beast indeed to the MS60B+ and harks back nicely to the 90's 😄

Which Boss multifx are you referring to?

Yeah, similarly I guess I'm just going to have to get adept at editing on the pedal itself and, fingers crossed it won't be too painful! I'm hopeful that this is going to be a decent step up in processing power/sound quality from my B1-4. I do love the compact form factor and combining with a little midi pedal may further enhance its live use.

I've just emailed them to ask / encourage them to do exactly that for the B2-4 and MS-60B+ 😊

Road tested the ZARs tonight in a full live band setting. I won't be going back to the ZS 10s!! It was perhaps the first time I've actually enjoyed having IEMs rather than feeling "they do a job". Clarity was so much better - I was able to significantly reduce both the bass in my personal mix and the overall IEM volume setting too, and consequently found myself getting a much better band mix as well as hearing my bass really well. I appreciate that's just my personal experience from one gig with the ZAR's, after many using ZS 10s, so feedback from the other recent purchasers on this thread, once they've had a chance to use them live also, will hopefully either confirm my comments, or give a more balanced picture.

See - this thread has already proved its worth! 😅

There's a slightly cryptic comment in the recent Guitar World review: "the versatile stompbox can be paired with Zoom's Guitar Lab app for iOS (the Apple equivalent is coming soon)". Not sure what is being hinted at by 'the Apple equivalent is coming soon'?

And the nice thing about the Boss LS-2 is that it has individual volume controls so you can then tailor your mix of clean and drive to suit. Could be a neat solution for the OP in fattening his sound with minimal loss of low end? IME low-end suck with bass drives, resulting in "less" bass in the mix is something I've often found I've had to guard against in a live mix.

What's the best way of getting that double track sound in a live setting? Is it easily do-able? I'm thinking a multi fx with parallel paths may be simplest solution in terms of moving parts? Or perhaps a signal splitter back into a mini mixer? But don't know if that's going to do much more than having a drive pedal with a good clean blend?

Saying 14 weeks when I clicked on the Bax website! Which ties in with Zoom saying the pedal will ship in July. Liking the £135 though. But not getting the thinking behind making the patch editor only available on iOS ☹️

Thanks - I don't trust the "delivery within 8 days" though. Going to wait until they have it in stock. I paid £104 for a new MS-60B when they first came out in 2013, which would be around £160 in today's money, so this doesn't feel all that bad given that it's saving me getting a Helix Stomp 😄 All I can find is "Handy Guitar Lab App for iOS" which isn't going to be great for us who have PC / Android. Hmmm...that could be a real downer / potential deal breaker.

Apparently relatively straightforward midi access, which could make it a breeze to use live?

That's an eye opening perspective. I'd assumed that 'cos we're providing the audience with a well-balanced and tight FoH sound, rather than the sometimes mush/wall of sound that you can get from an unbalanced back-line set up, the punters would generally be enjoying the gig more rather than less? Certainly we've had many good gigs in terms of audience response - so that's not been a particular issue for us so far. Do you think the lack of energy you felt in the audience was due to the PA set up? I.e. if you were stage front you might have been in a "sound well" (dunno if that's even a proper term!) and those further back were getting the full benefit of the FoH sound? I'm guessing the bands themselves were giving out the expected level of performance energy themselves?

I'm not so sure that I can dismiss it when my bandmates comment on "not feeling it" as being simply not liking the songs, or them being out of their comfort zone - particularly when we've had many gigs with exactly the same material played really well and tightly that have not elicited the same reaction. It's been a more common sentiment since we abandoned back line entirely at the start of this year. I think there's maybe a deeper emotional connection to what sound we are hearing and feeling as musicians, which feeds into our stage performance and enjoyment of playing live?

Interesting you mention your guitarist also...seems to be a particular issue for them in being disconnected from their sound. IEMs vs Guitar Player. Anyone else experience this? : r/livesound (reddit.com)

Putting everything through FoH and using IEMs (or some using IEMs and one using a small stage monitor for guitar) = great for a balanced, articulate audience sound. Minimises feedback and doesn't overwhelm the IEM with stage sound. But I'm finding bandmates commenting that they're not "feeling it" at gigs. In particular the guitarist (and the rest of us tbh) missing the richness of sound that comes from hearing a quality guitar amp. Not missing the mushy wall of sound that comes from just relying on the guitar amp at full audience gig volume though! Is there a best of both worlds where we use backline at moderate stage volumes, but DI / mic up the kit to go through FoH and let the PA do the heavy lifting? Have any of you gone back to using a combination of backline and PA support after trying the silent stage approach and found that it improved your gigging experience?

@EBS_freak - excellent sine wave MkII post, thanks Russ!