Al Krow

All for live music being performed by real people. But, if you limit ANY "actual performance" to humans, what does that imply for, in order of artificality, to the following: 1. guitarists and bass players using pedals? 2. keys players playing the horn section on their keys, doing away with the need for eg a trumpet or sax player for the occasional song (although won't be anything like as good IMO!)? 3. bands using backing tracks? 4. bands replacing drummers entirely with drum synths? 5. solo artists replacing entire bands with backing tracks? 6. DJs playing recorded music with no need for any live musicians? [7. Jukeboxes replacing DJs? - just for completeness that's obviously not live 😅] Fwiw when we play live we're at level 1.

I bought my first Panda FI Mk1 off a fellow BC'er back in 2018 - he and I have stayed mates ever since meeting up at a service station in time honoured fashion to buy/sell the goods! But I never quite gelled with that or the subsequent several later versions I bought and gave up on! I always thought that this could be a great product (and fed my thoughts back to Peter) as and when: - they improved the tracking (done - v4) - came out with a more compact pedalboard friendly model (done - v4 VIP) - made this user friendly for bassists who wanted some great usable sounds out of the box and allowed for better on-board editing - looks they've cracked that with v4.5 The MXR Synth provides much of that too (albeit 8 out of the box 'song' presets, vs 22 'song' on the FI) and has demonstrated the level of demand for the above features. Why choose the FI v4 over the MXR bass synth? Well for an extra £20 the FI v4 provides: a more capable synth engine (including FM synthesis); a better display; many more presets; midi capability; and the ability to deep dive with a bespoke computer editor for those who would like to have that option. Feels like a no-brainer to me! And it's great to be able to support a home-grown product championed by one of our own. VIP just ordered 😊

Do you feel the same about software engineers who have spent years training, getting a loan to see them through uni and can now be replaced with ai generating code at the press of a button? Or about language translators who find their work drying up, or ai assisting doctors with identifying cancer cells that they would have missed when looking at scans? Sure this is going to make life difficult for original songwriters looking to break through, no question! But it's already happening. Do you ever use ChatGPT? Ai is not performing music live to an appreciative audience who don't want a hologram playing for them, so your time and the rest of our time and effort learning an instrument has definitely not gone to waste! And there's nothing stopping you having fun collaborating with pals writing music - if it's decent, people will want to listen to it when you perform it live - something ai ain't going to be able to do.

Fixed. There's a world of difference between what @edstraker123 has explained he's doing and what my brother-in-law, who's not a musician, got Suno to produce the other day (yep his was defo slop - but didn't stop it bringing a smile to family members!) And the stuff that's been crafted with care and attention with ai input is likely to be a hundred times better than quite a lot of the "original slop" that's too often foisted on audiences, which should leave no one wondering why no one's turning up to their gigs.

Hologram performances of ABBA and former stars feels like a very specific type of (phenomenally expensive) tribute act? And if you've ever been to ABBA Voyage you will appreciate how just how fantastic the session musicians are who are playing the music live at every performance. My brother in law asked me if I'd like to play bass on that set? Hell yeah! Except I couldn't tie my counterpart's shoelaces... 😅 @edstraker123 - love what you're saying in your two posts above! Using AI creatively in the way you're suggesting seems to me like it's democratising and making accessible the songwriting process to music creators who are using AI as a tool. Getting what's produced to an audience to listen to is going to be another matter though and no doubt the music industry will fight tooth and nail to retain the ability to "make" and promote their own artists to keep some control and earnings. For me the prospect of covers bands like my own coming up with ai assisted original material that they end up performing alongside all the covers we do is an interesting one and feels like a hybrid approach; one that is a way different skill-set and quality-control threshold to hitting "Suno write me the words and lyrics for a song" to add to the tsunami of "ai slop" being produced. Will be more of a challenge to both us and our audiences in terms of introducing new music than playing Mr Brightside for the 1000th time? https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m002f1d0/radical-with-amol-rajan Interestingly the discussion of ai in music was a topic of discussion on Radio 4's Radical last night, between Amol Rajan and Panos A. Panay president of The Recording Academy, which organises the Grammy Awards. There's about 13 mins focussed on the role and impact of ai between 27 to 40 mins in.

Got a wee confession to make: I had a twinge of regret on missing out on that MXR synth pedal in the FS a couple of days back, which was snapped up before I'd even seen it listed! Having now seen what the v4.5 FI is capable of, that regret has been replaced with relief! Seems to me the updated FI can do everything the MXR can, and then some?

What about seeing if eg Charles Berthoud will give the updated VIP an IMA style review? Could be a game changer in terms of sales? Even better, get him to A/B it with the MXR in a leading bass synth pedal shootout?

Love it! Great job, Peter and team!

A well trodden discussion topic! Covers bands range from hobbyist musicians for whom playing once or twice a month live for fun is the goal, and they're in no way dependent on the income and are happy to accept £50 a head. I have several band members in my crew whom I would term "semi-pro", and for whom income from the band plays a key part of their earnings. We do a mixture of pub and function work and we don't accept pub bookings for less than £100 a head. We've pretty much got weekly bookings already in the diary for 2026 from our pub residencies. Function work pays considerably more and some BC'ers are in bands doing purely function work, some making a full time living from it. Quality tribute bands can often command very good money too - reflecting the time and effort into their product. Solo artists are providing their own kit and transport and having to entertain a crowd without the energy we can get from bandmates and a live drum kit behind - they deserve their pay and good luck to them! It's not one size fits all.

You miss the point? The invention of the production line took away skilled work from mechanics who were able to able to put a whole engine together from scratch. AI already has the ability to take work away from skilled song writers, which I wouldn't regard as a mundane task, or have we all been wasting our time discussing that very issue on this thread?😅

For sure. Just as Henry Ford did with the car production line (see longer post above).

+1^^ for me. Very happy to recommend the Nux. Sounds like a great approach and look forward to your findings!

100% And, as I said at the end of my previous post, the parallel is that AI can't fake a live performance by a human band, which is what audiences want. They can already listen to a Jukebox if they wanted. So whilst I fear for the future of the aspiring song writer in my band, who's working on his 4th album, I'm very glad we can be out at gigs each week doing something we love.

With AI, is the situation different to Henry Ford inventing the production line and taking work away from skilled workers who had the skills to put a whole engine together from scratch? Do we complain about AI coming up with better computer code to enable more rapid and successful cancer diagnosis, and lament the loss of software engineering jobs for graduates who have invested time and treasure in their chosen careers? Or do we musicians now find it a concern because it's getting a bit too close to home for comfort? AI opens the door of creativity to many, whilst challenging the livelihoods of others already skilled in the art of songwriting and of the session musicians and sound engineers laying down parts on recorded tracks. Just as having the ability to play the horn parts on keys, using a drum synth or downloading backing tracks for live performance, has already done for decades. Authenticity is, for me, key here - let's be honest when AI has been a significant part of the creative process and not pass it off as being purely our own work? But if, for example, AI had written "At Last" for Etta James to sing, or "Can't help falling in love" performed by Elvis, would we have listened? Will the audience care who wrote the song if hearing it gives them joy? Or is this all just taking us back to the time pre-Beatles when 95% (I'm guessing here!) of leading performers had their song material provided for them? And 100% of covers and tribute bands already do today? AI can't fake a live performance by a human band, which is what audiences want to provide them with the soundtrack to their weddings or parties and end-of-the week nights out. They can already listen to a Jukebox or hire a DJ if that's what they prefer. So, whilst I fear for the future of any aspiring songwriter trying to break through in the fearsomely tough world of the original musician, I'm very glad we can be out at gigs each week doing something we love.

You've had and loved several BDDI's over the years. You know that it nails the BDDI tone? 😅 If you're liking the GP-50, any reason not to just get a BDDI to sit alongside it, and job done?

Interesting. Is that partly because Country is a relatively uncomplicated genre in terms of song structure and chord progression, and therefore a relatively easy one to get under AI's belt?

Nope "you being exactly correct" = I did prompt it to be country. (ChatGPT would have understood my response 😅)

Yes, exactly correct.

Been a very interesting 24 hour journey for me. This thread (and thanks to the OP for starting it) prompted me to look into what the AI song-writing process involved, which I'd not done before. And as I commented earlier - it's scarily easy! I shared the song earlier on this thread, and also with a few close muso friends, who were very complimentary about the quality of the song. One mate, who's also a bass player and band leader of a covers band, rightly challenged me by asking: where's the "pride, value, wonderment" in using an AI song writing platform? He's 100% right that it would feel pretty shallow in itself, but as part of the full YT video which it inspired, well quite a surprising amount! It's probably the most creative thing I've done in a long while! Will be fun to see if we can play this well, live, at some point down the line!

I'm not sure what the neighbours would think about a gig in the basement at full volume, haha! I've got two separate AC adaptors, one that came with the unit by Fidus (made in China) for home use, and a separate one for gigs by Dongguan Lewe (also China). Both are 12V 5A 60W PSUs A&H recommend their spare part: AH-AM12199 PSU, but this seems to be tricky to get hold of? What PSUs are other CQ desk owners using?

Thanks gents - appreciate the input. To clarify although the Zoom was connected, it wasn't actually providing any signal / output at the time of the noise. Similarly the other inputs (PC stereo in and bass via my Boss GX10 pedal) were connected but not in use. The set up had been connected with devices on standby for a couple of hours, whilst I was had been in another room, when the noise went off. Had happened on several previous occasions. Worryingly - it happened on the final two songs of our gig on Saturday night. Unfortunately the unit is now out of the 12 month A&H warranty having been bought as B-stock from Andertons 15 months back, who have a 3 months return policy on B-stock goods. I do otherwise love this A&H desk, not least the UI - has been a joy to use! So I have (foolishly?) sourced a second hand apparently vgc used A&H CQ12T as a back-up unit, which will allow me to get the CQ18T checked out by a local tech and/or A&H.

Even more scary is that a close mate, whom I formed a covers band with back in 2013 and has written 5 albums, just commented: "TBH that song sounds as good if not better than many songs coming out of Nashville". Whether that's fair or not, the fact that was his reaction just shows how good AI already is at composition. Very glad that, like you, I'm focussed on live performance.

Scarily easy as I've just figured out! Another nail in the coffin for aspiring originals artists hoping to "make it", just as streaming has already proved to be? I suspect that where the industry is heading could well be similar to where classical music has ended up with performers, in our case covers and tribute bands, being custodians of a vast library of music that is already much loved; with occasional new material to sit alongside the great songwriters and composers of the past: read ABBA to Zeppelin for Bach to Verdi. The Times They Are A-Changin'...

Updated below.

Look forward to getting your thoughts on it!